S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

K-Series Programmable ECU installation questions / support issues
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K20Nick
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:41 pm

S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:43 am

1999 Acura Integra
KPRO4 SN: 47102
Software Version 4.3.6
ECU PN: 37820-PRB-A05 / 2068-509220
KPRO4

K20A2
PrivateSpec Engine and conversion harness
Kelford 179A
Ktuned Fuel System
RDX Injectors
Ktuned Ram Header/3" exhaust
Port and polished RBC
Skunk2 70mm TB
3" Intake with vstack/filter combo
STOCK MAP and TPS
IACV delete
PS/AC delete
AEM 30-4110 as analog input (wideband)
NO PO2/S02

NOW HERE IS THE MAJOR ISSUE.

The car is being Etuned and for whatever reason the S. Trim is adding a positive % (adding fuel) to an already rich condition.... WHY IS THIS HAPPENING, it should be taking away. I've triple checked how to run the wideband sensor as the primary using analog input and everything seems to be working fine. The AFR reading on the Kmanager matches the gauge with a -.1V to -.2V offset. so Kmanager is reading what the sensor is saying but not applying closed loop according the the tables. We've went through 3 revisions with the same results and at one point the car did not apply any trim and fell on its face lean. The tuner has sent a brand new file to rule out corruption and I got the same result. 19% S. Trim in an already rich condition. Im at the point of thinking the software is bugged.

I've attached the calibration as well as a small datalog of idling and some revving.
Attachments
closed loop not working right.kdl
(2.57 MiB) Downloaded 18 times
NicholasMarlow_KelfordA_410cc_NewBase_Rev01.kal
(160.06 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

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Spunkster
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by Spunkster » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:57 am

Try taking out the negative voltage offset and see if that makes a difference.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:22 pm

removed the voltage offset no change. I beleive the offset is just to match up the gauge reading and the kmanager reading from the gauge.

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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by Spunkster » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Have you tried enabling the target lambda tables in the Closed loop advanced section of parameters.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:37 pm

yes the 3 original calibrations that were sent to me all had the target tables enabled and had the same issues. this time around the tuner sent me a fresh calibration with the WOT 0.85 selected and the same issue is present.

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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by Spunkster » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:04 pm

I will have our software engineers look into why the AF reading is not changing form 14.7 as I believe that is the issue.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:32 pm

the AF and target AF change, its just the S. trim is not adjust accordingly. its not taking away fuel to meet 14.7 but rather adding when its already very rich.

fonzeka
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by fonzeka » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:51 am

I'm no expert here but a few things to consider, you got no IACV, big TB, car is cold and outside temp is also rather cold.
AFCMD is not 14.7 when engine temp is low.
The first STFT maxout in the log looks pretty normal.
The one at the end of the log does look a bit weird though and I agree the STFT doesn't seem to work correctly, not sure why it would do that.
Are you sure the kal you uploaded is the same that was used when you did the log?
It's weird that the STFT doesn't dip below 0.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:08 am

no your are right its not taking away and adding to much for no reason when its already rich. its not bringing it up to 14.7 AFR
this is the same calibration as the datalog. all the datalogs i.ve been sending to the tuner have been the same. all adding fuel even when he scaled the fuel back it was still adding 9% this is why im considering the software to be glitched or bugged. I've been diagnosing this for awhile with my friend we've went over every possible scenario unless something mechanical is failing or the actual wideband sensor is fucked.

fonzeka
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Location: Sweden

Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by fonzeka » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:28 pm

I had a similar problem (but inverted) in the beginning of tuning my car, AFR was going fully lean but STFT was at -20% and no fuel was added.
I solved it by disabling my stock O2 sensor (S2000 kpro so unchecked "secondary O2 sensor"), not sure how you could do that on a k-series though.
If you got more logs showing the problem let us see.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:22 pm

Yeah as far as I know, my friend and the tuner all the right boxes are checked off.. so I’m lost at this point. I would have to take another log the other ones I have are too long to upload to this thread.

K20Nick
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Re: S.Trim Adding Fuel to an already rich condition

Post by K20Nick » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:53 pm

THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN RESOLVED.

I wanted to make sure the KPRO was not corrupt itself, so I reached out to a local RSX Type S owner who had a CAI and exhaust. Stock O2 sensor. plugged it in with a stock K20A2 map and long behold the car ran as it should on a stock sensor. the S trim was acting as it should and the car was holding its 14.7 ish range.
so I had enough messing around with trying to get the external wideband (AEM 30-4110) to work. Now remember my idiot harness maker said people are stepping away from PO2 sensor and going to analog wideband options. ( I dont give a damn, he should have just wired one in like normal people do to begin with.) So I took matters into my own hands and did a lot of digging and managed to figure out the wiring for the stock PO2.

and thats exacly what I wired up. I changed the parameters on the first revision my tuner sent AND IT ALL WORKS. as this was happening my tuner sent me an email stating he talked to a friend who was having the exact same issues with the AEM 30-4110 sensor ADDING FUEL IN A RICH CONDITION IN CLOSED LOOP. and he found more accounts of people having these issues. so there is some bug in the software not allowing this particular gauge or sensor to work as an external wideband analog input. hopefully Honadata can look into that and sort it out but, as of now I'm a happy camper with a stock O2 sensor.

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