Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

K-Series Programmable ECU installation questions / support issues
BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Car is a 05 RSX-S

3rd-4th Gear Log Attached as well as the Calibration.


K20Z1
TSX Cams
Stock Head Porting
Supertech Stock size valves-Dual Springs-Retainers (Planning on boost shortly)
ARP Head Bolts
BuddyClub Race Header
Thermal 3" Catback
Ported RBC IM
AEM CAI
Stock 310cc INJs
Walboro 255 - direct wired


This car was dyno tuned down in Texas, and made a fairly decent 234whp&167wtq on a Mustang Dyno, not bad but everythings relative..

Can any of the experts take a look at the attached log... Im looking and to my untrained Eye, Im seeing numbers that scare me, like leaner than 15:1 at peak torque, and around 14:1 or LEANER all the way up to 8400rpm.

Any help is greatly appreciated, the WOT Comp Table is essentially 12.5:1 accross the board, Im sure Im missing something but I thought Closed loop and WOT the tune would be referencing that table for Target Lambda (I have altered nothing yet as I'nm not familiar with KPro and what tables are a prioity in a given situation, I used Haltech on RB26's and that the extent of my experiance)
TEST PULL 1.kdl
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EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

Hi Brian,

I see you as lean as 16.5 at one point and it never really getting back to a good AFR throughout the pull. I have to step put for a bit, when I get back I will look over everything a little more and see if I can help you. I haven't played with K Pro much either, but I have plenty of experience with Flashpro. Hopefully someone can chime in before I do again, if not I will see what I can find later. Based on what I see in this log, I wouldn't do anymore WOT pulls until someone looks at this for you.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Thanks a lot. I finally got the password to log in and make changes/catalog and this was my first pull. I may just load the base map in KPro for the immediate future as it looks to be a sold 12.5:1 map with modest timing and Cam angle.

I appreciate your help and would like to get this current tune back in line.

I'm wondering if it was Tuned in 440cc Injs and 310s went back in. Quick math puts that in the vicinity of the requested 13:1 AFR (But the Injs are set to 310cc. All weird)

EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

Yeah I'm not sure why it was so lean if it was tuned. Did you have 440's in there are some point during the process? It also looks like injector duty cycle is good, doesn't look like you're running out of injector anyways.

I made some simple WOT fueling changes to see if it gets you back inline. Take this one for a spin. Also, if the fueling is this far off on the WOT areas, I would be curious to see what the part throttle fueling looks like.

Take this attached file for a spin and see how it goes.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Thanks a lot, I'll take a few logs.


Curious, did you add a set additional percentage of fuel at WOT?

Whats crazy is it drives PERFECTLY. Cold Start, Hot Start, initial tip in at any rpm or load, and has no knock anywhere.

I'm going to log WOT as well as partial on your revision, then rip the Innovate Motorsport Wideband out of my Skyline to 100% verify the AFR.

To be sure before I run down a rabbit hole. I cant imagine no knock or correction factor on a long 4th pull on 93 octane with leaner than stoich at peak torque. (Or maybe I'm used to a different platform and Cyl pressures are much lower here? 💁‍♂️)

Thanks very much for your help! Will report back soon.

EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

In the WOT areas, I had to add between 5% up top, and 19% on the 40 cam. And between was a mixture of in between. Hopefully on this next pull you should be a touch rich, or right at 12.8. But yeah, between 5-19% was what I added. The 19% was mostly in the area where were seeing high 15's and low 16's for AFR. I was just trying to get you back on the fat side as quick as we can, then fine tune from there.

Yeah the part throttle stuff might be pretty dialed in. It may also run good, but could be cleaned up, we'll see when you get your datalog

All depends on the ignition and the scenario. If the ignition is on the brink, a knock may occur from the lean condition. But if you haven't seen a knock yet, it sounds like the ignition should be in a good spot. Main thing right now is getting those AFR's back a safe area where a knock isn't as big of a deal. Like I mentioned, once we get the AFR safe, everything else will fall into place.

h2.4
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:06 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by h2.4 »

Brian, If you want to just test the theory of being tuned on a different size injector, an easier way to do it is just add "fuel trim" under the fuel trim tab. You can globally add and subtract fuel from there and not chase the cam angle maps, then you don't have to worry about messing up the "tuned" map". Just as a test of course...but from the looks of things, it sounds like it just might need a proper tune. Make sure your logger is matching what your a/f or lambda gauge is reporting also. The gauge in my car at the moment is having an issue. Air fuel on gauge and datalog match perfectly after minor voltage offset. But as the car goes richer on the gauge, the logger stops recording richer. it will be almost 2 points off when I get into the rich region. The wideband voltage coming in from the gauge is not correct, so I need to contact the gauge manuf. to remedy. But long story, is I was getting incorrect data in a portion of my a/f logs. The vehicle was running richer than my logs stated when under full throttle, but gauge and logger matched everywhere else during startup, and light throttle cruising.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Thank you for the insight. That kind of seems like what happens until, for example ~50% throttle.

Let me ask this. Have you ever seen a variation between what is shown in your datalog and what is shown on the display window?

If anything I'd assume that has more to do with the number of sensor/gauges I have setup on my display tab (about 25 lol)

I'm tossing the WB sensor/gauge from my RB on the car now as well.

h2.4
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:06 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by h2.4 »

Honestly, I haven't noticed. I usually just let the logger record, then make changes when I'm stopped or not in the car. So busy right now, so I can't get my car on the dyno, so I've been chipping away at it on the way to and from work. Since your own car is never a priority to customer's cars, Haha. I would assume the gauge window is what the logger is recording, so I wouldn't think they would be different. Just only a difference between the actual gauge in car, and the value in the logger due to scaling, or voltage offset.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Kyle,

Somethings up with my GMAIL, my 2-Step verification is going to an unknown phone number (fantastic..) and my PM Box won't let me attach a Log. I'll try on a desktop later.

I got a bunch of good WOT and Cruising/Part throttle logs but the KManager crashed multiple times.

The one WOT Pull i was able to save looks pretty close to spot on, at least for what I've been told NA motors like, I still think I should be at 11.4 and 40psi lol


attached below.
TEST 2.kdl
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EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

Hi Brian,

Yeah that looked a ton better. You're definitely a lot safer at this point. It can still use a couple of tweaks here and there. I made some small changes to the WOT fueling for you in this next revision. Based on your IAT's of roughly 88*, we want to be somewhere in the 12.8-13.0 right now.

Haha, 11.4 AFR will be whenever you go boosted. :)

Here is the next file. Once we get closer to dialed, I will touch up the high cam fueling a little bit. For now, I'm just focused on the WOT columns to get you dialed in. This next one should be pretty good. I made small adjustments to fine tune the fueling, so it should be even closer to dialed. Injector duty looked fine again, so it looks like everything is functioning very well on your car.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Kyle,

Thanks so much.

I'm going to head out now and get some logs.

The other thing I've been reading up on is NA/I-Vtec Cam angle/phrasing theory. Its wild how backwards NA vs Boosted is in certain ways.

In that note, you've got PM and thank you!

EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

No problem Brian!

Yeah I noticed the cam angle a mapping, at least on the high cam, is very direct. During your WOT pulls, it really transitions back and forth between two cam angles a lot which I don't personally like. I like for them to transition from cam angle map to cam angle map smoothly. But I didn't wanna bring up too many things since you didn't ask for help there, that and your tuner should and probably does know more than I do. I would smooth them out personally, but we can cross that bridge when we get there if you want to and we can try my theory to see if it smooths out the hand off from cam angle to cam angle.

I don't see a PM if you sent one Brian. Let me know on that.

BrianJewell1988
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by BrianJewell1988 »

Cliff notes of attached log.

12 seconds in is a 3rd-4th pull, I just noticed on this log there's a -6% Long Term Fuel Trim. It's still got that quick-lean upon VTec crossover then is maybe a little lean until closer to 7250ish rpm where it seems to stabilize a lot closer to that 13.4 mark.
Around 2:00 min mark, I went WOT in 6th pre-VTEC to check that fueling, looks pretty damn solid at around 13.4-13.6:1 the whole time.

2:45 is a lower rpm 4th pull,

3:00 is downshifting to 4th and running it to a little short of redline.
FTR.kdl
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EFICU
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Need some more experianced help - Datalog is LEAN

Post by EFICU »

I would have to check, but the fuel trims don't get added during open loop operation, so that shouldn't be messing with us. Based on it being lean, and the l trims being negative, I am pretty sure they don't. I was looking through the file, is there no where to turn off long term trims on K-Pro?

The 6th gear pull didn't enter into Vtec, so that is why the fueling was pretty solid throughout. Instead of chasing the wide open fueling through the cam angle changes, how about we lock the high cam on the 30* cam angle and build that fuel table properly, then move to the 40* can tune that properly, then re check once we have those dialed in? Either that, maybe try the last revision we did and see if the fueling is better. But I would recommend locking the high cam on one angle at a time and lets tune it. Then reinstall your cam angle map and see how it goes.

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