K20A2 - knock issues

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HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Fri May 23, 2014 8:06 pm

I have a Lotus Elise with a K20A2 conversion and have been experiencing knock. I have had the car dyno-tuned at a local Hondata distributor. Since then I'm still getting knock - initially I thought it was only in hot weather but recently I logged some knock in cooler weather.

Comparing the tune (ignition advance tables) to some of the base Hondata tunes mine looks pretty aggressive although I'm certainly not an expert in this stuff.

Attached are the log with an example of the knock as well as the tune itself.

Would appreciate any feedback.

thanks

Engine itself is stock although is running a custom exhaust and a green cotton enclosed pod style filter.
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12.kdl
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Tuned 17 Dec 13.kal
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keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Sat May 24, 2014 1:26 pm

4 minute datalog...90% of the knocks are in the first 5 seconds. LMAO

Weird tune and youre right, the timing is aggressive, but not excessively so.

Get a good 3rd gear pull and post it. This one is in 4th and cuts off. It does appear to be a top end timing issue causing the issue.

The "stock-tuned" is the best comparison for your car.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Sat May 24, 2014 2:41 pm

I have the datalog set to start automatically on WOT which is why the log isn't all that complete (the Lotus has a lack of spare signals to use as a switch so I need to work something out there).

I will try and do a 3rd gear run today and post up the results.

Thanks for your help.

HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Sat May 24, 2014 11:17 pm

I did some 3rd gear runs today in the attached file. Wasn't getting much knock but how does it look otherwise?

Thanks
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run 2.kdl
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keto06
Posts: 499
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Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Mon May 26, 2014 3:56 pm

Theres a few spots that are leaner than I would like. Also some of the timing changes from low cam to high cam are a bit abrupt, but overall its not bad.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Mon May 26, 2014 6:25 pm

Thanks for taking a look, much appreciated.

In terms of the fueling, which area's should I be looking to fix?

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Mon May 26, 2014 6:59 pm

Well you did the log in closed loop, so the only useful data is WOT.

I added a little fuel for safety just before VTEC and just after. I didnt mess with the timing. Get me another log like this.
Attachments
Tuned 17 Dec 13(mod).kal
(151.08 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Mon May 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Great, thanks alot for this. I probably won't get a chance to do another run until the weekend though (I have a track day on Sunday which would be ideal).

BTW, I couldn't work out how to do the datalog in open loop.

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Mon May 26, 2014 9:30 pm

Open Parameters, Click Closed Loop, and uncheck the box. :) I wouldnt drive it around like this unless you are datalogging cruise fuel values.

I would recommend running this map at your track day though. It might not be as fast (though I doubt youd notice a difference) but there is a bit more fuel there for safety.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

HPE
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by HPE » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:12 am

Ok, attached is a datalog from the trackday today. Plenty of knock to analyse unfortunately :( After looking at this I called it quits for the day (it was also wet so very little to be gained from continuing).

Cal also attached for reference.

Very appreciative of any thoughts as to what's wrong with my tune. Ignition advance or something else?

Thanks
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Tuned 1 Jun 14.kal
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eastern creekrun 2.kdl
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keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:47 am

Wow.

Yeah it definitely needs some work.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

darton
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 12:55 am

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by darton » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:48 am

I'm running much much more timing than that with no issues.

are you sure that this is no ghost knock due to some other issues including the sensor itself?

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by keto06 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:44 am

darton wrote:I'm running much much more timing than that with no issues.

are you sure that this is no ghost knock due to some other issues including the sensor itself?
Can I hear more about this?

Of all the cars Ive done, most of them preferred between 26-30* timing at WOT. Occasionally up to 32* but never any more than that. How much is "much more?"
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

darton
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 12:55 am

Re: K20A2 - knock issues

Post by darton » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:30 am

Hello keto ..... seems that I was looking at a wrong map from another setup.

I also run max 33° figures but then retard a bit for safe purposes and no further gains.

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