New updates now No start...

s300 and SManager software questions & answers
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Peter S.
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:46 pm

New updates now No start...

Post by Peter S. »

I have a project that has not been running for 4 years. I had a turbo tune that the car was a DD and a weekend racer on race gas tune. rebuilt the motor with new rings and gaskets and upgraded turbo from T3/T4 59 trim to a 35R. Now the car will not start on the old tune?

D16Z6 35R
880 injectors w/ resistor box
P28 S300
Innovate LM1 D10 I believe
GM 3 bar Map sensor.

There has obviously been a lot of changes to the S300. I can load the stock P28 and the car will start if I give it gas but obviously will not idle. I was finally able to get the car to crank on an older tune for a T3/T4 59 trim set up that I had. car would not idle on its own ran for like 2 min after that back to no start. Are there new settings that I need to change or work with? I see people talking about dead times. Also tried just modifying a stock map and just adjusting the injector size to try and get it to start or idle. The car would not start.

All of the normal are spot on. Mech. timing is correct, car has spark brand new main relay no blown fuses. again car starts on stock P28 Map. I am completely scratching my head on the updates to the S300. I also looked at some of the MAPs and read people talking about ohms of injectors. I did not see anything about ohms in the parameters. Not sure if I've just been out of the game too long. I appreciate any help or advice that someone can give me.
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Spunkster
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Re: New updates now No start...

Post by Spunkster »

So the car has not run properly since the rebuild? I would recommend you use the s300/ECU on a known working car to see if it can run that.
Peter S.
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:46 pm

Re: New updates now No start...

Post by Peter S. »

Okay sorry finally an update. I put the stock injectors back in and took the resistor box off of course. car will idle on a complete stock P28 ecu that I have. I am running the GM 3bar map sensor, it popped a CEL for the MAP. When I plug in my S300 P28 the car will not idle. It makes a view pops but will not turn on w/o hitting the gas and it just pops all over the place. I also tried to adjust the MAP on the S300 hoping that it would turn on and it would not. Thank you for any help.
forevertrj
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Location: Victoria BC
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Re: New updates now No start...

Post by forevertrj »

you'll have to calculate the values for the map sensor, I recommend getting a vacuum pump and measuring the voltage at -30" Hg of vacuum, and recording this voltage and also getting a bike pump or something that can hold pressure steady and measuring the voltage of the map sensor voltage at it's maximum rated pressure, use the hondata help resources that can be located on the map setting in sManager for the mathematics on calculating the new scalar and offset. not all maps are created equal so even if hondata sManager has a pulldown for the GM 3Bar i would calculate it on your own to make sure the map isn't wrecked and to see if the scalar and offset are truely correct. also just put a stock map sensor in to get your dead times figured out for the new injectors, then tune for the map after.

Also this may help, put the stock injectors and map sensor back onto the car, update the tune or start from scratch, make sure you have no vacuum leaks and the idle has been set, the help file for this can be found under parameters and the idle tab. it will say something along these lines, set the minium idle to 850, and set the duty cycle to normal "middle" then go unplug the IACV sensor plug, and adjust the set screw (generally to the left of the EVAP hose barb on the throttle body) turn the set screw left or right to bring the idle down to 450 rpm, if you can't reach 450rpm you have a vacuum leak, don't proceed any further with tuning until this leak is resolved, if you can get 450rpm your well on your way. plug the IACV back in and enjoy a fantastic idle.

now for those injectors! did they come with a spec sheet? what brand are they? also I would recommend FIC(fuel injector clinic) or ID's (Injector dynamic) injectors as they are ball/seat and have a fantastic atomization pattern compared to needle point injectors, also if your getting new injectors get High impedance as NEW low impedance injector technology isn't as good as high impedance, you'll have to google to see what year high impedance injector technology surpassed low impedance injector technology.

set your new injector size on the calibration file to 880cc and cranking and tip in both to 0%
also make sure your fuel pressure on the rail is set properly to the data sheet, if you don't have the sheet try setting the fuel pressure to 39psi or 40psi do this by having your laptop plugged into the hondata ecu, and having Smanager open, press f10 once the iginition has been placed in the on position and the ECU is powered and you can read the sensors outputs, go under ONLINE at the menu bar and to the --> test outputs setting, under here you can see a check box with empty tank(fuel pump) check this box and your fuel pump will start up and remain on, go to the fuel rail and check the mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the rail and adjust your Adjustable Fuel pressure Regulator set screw to read 39/40PSI on your gauge, lock the set screw in place with the lock nut and leave it forever after today, unless you make fuel line modifications. you may now go back to the laptop and turn off the fuel pump and close the test outputs menu.

if you have the data sheet for the injectors proceed to set the 14v to the recommended dead time and the 12v to around 0.4-0.6ms higher so if 14v is sitting at 0.8ms set the 12v to around 1.2ms,or whatever your data sheet recommends, if you set your own 12v dead time this is just a rough estimate we'll come back to the 12v later. also set your 16v dead time to about 0.2-0.3ms less then the 14v, or try and leave it the same as your 14v and we'll change it after.

NEXT! TURN OFF ALL accessories of the car, no stereo, no interior lights, no head lights, no wiper blades, no amplifier nothing!

if for whatever reason you turned off the ignition please turn the ignition on and fire up the car after the calibrations been uploaded

now go to the fuel trim tab under the main menu's parameters window. and under OVERALL trim make sure it's set to 0% and look at your wideband gauge what does it read? nothing? it says lean but is still running? is it dying or sounding good? if it's dying navigate to the overall fuel trim % add a positive value like 10-20% and save the file(if real time update is enabled only saving is required) if real time update is disabled you will need to press ctrl+u to upload the tune.

when you pressed ctrl+s and saved the file did the idle get better? did you see any value on your wideband gauge? if your getting closer to 14 AFR this is good if your at 11 AFR this is even better this means you can decrease the overall fuel trim.

the trick is there will be a lots of change to the fuel tables under the fuel value icon. This looks like a red lightning bolt and a little stickman beside the red bolt. also the icon might be right below the help pulldown in the Smanager menu bar example file/edit/.../window/"help".

once you're in the fuel tables for the low fuel map and NOT THE IGNITION TABLES but the fuel tables you'll probably see column 1 and 2 is where the idle is happening and around 900rpm now I want you to select all the fuel with ctrl+a and then use CTRL+J to open the adjustment popup, and type in 10 under the percentage and press enter or OK, congradulations you've now increased all the fuel in your map by 10% effectively doing the same thing the overall fuel trim is doing under the parameters->fuel trim tab, go back to the fuel trim tab now and change that 20% down to 10% and watch the afr's change around again, does your AFR go lean? higher then 15 AFR or change from 12-13 back to 14? if so keep increasing the fuel tables and saving the file then going back into the fuel trim and decreasing the overall fuel trim values until you reach 0% now your fuel is solely reliant on the fuel map and not a overall trim calculation.

The same can be said for rich mixtures just put in the overall fuel trim a negative value (removing fuel) and then going back into the fuel tables and removing the percentage from all the fuel values with the select all and then CTRL+j and putting in like -10 and pressing ok.

if your car is running and your getting a LEAN AFR is could be considered a rich miss! meaning the mixtures so rich that the gauge is confused i know it's a weird concept. basically if the car sounds like it's running strong and you aren't getting a reading on the wideband, it's too rich, if the cars stalling or sputtering really badly and rough it's way to lean, the car will probably die before you can adjust fuel, unless you tap the throttle, if the car sounds like it will die but it's still pretty smooth the mixture is too rich and eventually those new rings will burn away yay for no oil!

SO assuming we can get an idle around 14/13 AFR time to mess with that 12v dead time, turn on your blower fan to stage 1, did the AFR go leaner? or richer? or stay the same? if it stayed the same turn the blower motor up a few more notches, did the afr change now? lets say it did, go into the 12v dead time and add or remove 0.05 miliseconds or use the CTRL+i or CTRL+d keys to increase or decrease the values until you get your afr back to what it was when the blower motor was off.

use the CTRL+i and CTRL+d as a rough estimate, if you have to adjust by 0.05ms do so manually.

keep increasing the electrical load on the car by turning on the head lights and high beams, turning on the windshield wipers, amplifier, play some music whatever you can do to drop that voltage to as close to 12 as possible, don't worry if the ecu doesn't read a lower voltage under the sensor list just watch the AFR's and adjust your dead time for 12v accordingly.

great we're almost there!

time to set the 16v and 10v dead times, if you use the graph button beside the word volts on the fuel trim window it will show you the graph and you can see the linear line 12v to 14v has made, try to follow the straight line and set the 10v dead time and the 16v dead time, you can use math to solve their values first and adjust them slightly if you wish, as for the 8v dead time it needs to be greater then the 10v by 50% more so if your 12v dead time minus the 14v dead time resultant is 0.53ms and you added this # to the 12v dead time this gives you the 10v dead time now you take this 10v dead time multiply it by 1.50 which = 10v dead time +50% and then add this # to 0.53ms and you'll get your 8v dead time, set 0v dead time to the same as 8v. as for 16v you would take 14v dead time (0.80ms for example minus 0.53 to give you 0.27ms for 16v it will probably be closer to 0.31ms because the characteristics change with the higher voltage just like at 8v how it was 50% greater.(basically with lower voltage injectors have more of a delay of reaction time, and with higher voltage they react quicker)

now if you look at your AFR's and you turn on all your accessories and turn them all off really fast the AFR's should remain constant and should't be affected by the current draw on the car.

and now you can go rip around and tune

PM me if you need more answers.
Peter S.
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:46 pm

Re: New updates now No start...

Post by Peter S. »

Still scratching my head on this one. I am going to get a stock map today to get it running like advised. Here is my issue with that. I have already proven that the car will idle perfect with a stock P28. Something is obviously going wrong with the S300 P28. If the motor will idle and start perfectly with stock injectors on a stock computer but yet will not start with the S300. I would have to say that sums it up. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out.
forevertrj
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: Victoria BC
Contact:

Re: New updates now No start...

Post by forevertrj »

i read your post and PM, if the car starts on a stock p28 and uses the narrow band input it should still be getting a map error if you rev'd the engine up and down, because idle the voltage the GM map sensor is outputting may be similar to the stock. there are so many variables to account for with what your doing and trying that why I advised doing everything with stock injectors/dead times/map sensor etcetera to make sure the issue is or isn't the s300 ECU. with all this being said send me your calibrations your using for the s300, i'll look over them and see if I can see any discrepancies, in my experience i've had to change the fuel tables column 1 and 2 lots when changing injectors, injector dead times contribute 99% of the problem getting the idle mixture perfect.
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