Help! - wired nitrous control and solenoids always on

s300 and SManager software questions & answers
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ridewhencan
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Help! - wired nitrous control and solenoids always on

Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:46 am

I followed the hondata nitrous diagram but may have a problem with the activation switch to B8. My lighted arming switch has three wires; ground, ignition switched 12 volts and the wire to the WOT switch, which I removed and attached that wire to B8.

My relay #30, which had run to the battery, I took and spliced into relay #86, which I then ran to switched 12 volts. Relay #85 I wired to A20 and relay #87 goes to the solenoids. The solenoids are grounded on a chassis ground.

When I switched on the ignition I could hear the solenoids open. The sensor value for PSP and PCS were on, regardless of whether I toggled the arming switch. Finally inverting the PCS output would let me turn on the car without the solenoids opening but for some reason the solenoid ground was still showing current.

Both the B8 and A20 wires from the ecu were cut and soldered. Something is not right but I can't figure out what it is.

ridewhencan
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latest development

Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:36 pm

I disabled nitrous control in the calibration and tried to up load it. I turned the ignition on and tried to upload but got an error message, "upload failed," then the solenoid clicked. I turn the ignition off and on and uploaded again without problem.

I disconnected the nitrous solenoid ground and tried to start the car, which wouldn't start. The sensors showed they were getting voltage an there was a a/f reading but the rest of the sensors appeared frozen. For example, my tps read 26% but it didn't change whether I stepped on the gas peddle or not.

ridewhencan
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Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:01 pm

The green light in the ecu is on when the ignition is on. When I plug the usb cable into the laptop, the green flickers really quickly and it looks like the red might be on faintly. I'm praying I didn't fry a circuit. :(

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Spunkster
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Post by Spunkster » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:02 pm

Make sure you have the latest version of software by goign to help, check fo rupdates. Close SManager, and reopen it and then load a stock calibration and try starting the car.

ridewhencan
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Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:05 pm

Loaded stock map and it wouldn't start. Swapped ecu for a p13 and it still wouldn't start. Kept at it and it lit with a lot of visible exhaust out the back. Swapped ecu back to s300 with stock map and it started. Loaded my most recent map and it started. :D

Plugged in the nitrous ground, switched on ignition and solenoid clicked. Unplugged ground and it wouldn't start. On the third try it stumbled but finally started with lots of gray exhaust out the back but idling nicely. Pretty clearly when the solenoid clicks it's dumping fuel into the runners. This is a direct port wet kit.

Thank God the ecu doesn't appear to be fried. Now I have to figure out why the nitrous system is armed and activating upon ignition? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

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Post by Spunkster » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:56 pm

Hondata is set up to run a dry kit, not a wet kit. I would suggest hooking up your nitrous as a dry kit and then see if you get better results.

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Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:21 pm

Well . . . too late for that. I don't see why it would make a difference. Armed is armed and on is on, or at least that's what I thought. Is there a problem with the current draw from two solenoids. I thought perhaps the problem was with the arming switch. Whether it's wet or dry, there is a problem with the solenoid activating when the ignition is turned on. I don't understand a lot about electronics but it doesn't seem that removal of a solenoid would fix this problem. Does the wiring in the first post above seem correct or am I missing something glaringly obvious?

ridewhencan
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Post by ridewhencan » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:43 pm

This is the system, more or less. Image
Not sure how I would run that dry.

Saw this article. http://hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0405ht_hondata/ but that seems to apply to a single fogger.

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Post by ridewhencan » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:27 pm

Spunkster wrote:Hondata is set up to run a dry kit, not a wet kit. I would suggest hooking up your nitrous as a dry kit and then see if you get better results.
I suppose I could disconnect the fuel solenoid and see if the nitrous solenid still clicks on when the key is turned. I've just never heard of a direct port dry kit. Also, I wouldn't know where to start with how much fuel to add.

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Post by RMS » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:11 pm

you are right about it not mattering wet or dry. something is up with your controls. try inverting the output (n2o parameters) and get back to us.

down the line dry will be much better. especially with the improvement in resolution the s300 gives over the s200 for additional fuel and ignition. you can exchange your fuel solenoid later for an n2o sol and do a small dual stage setup with the plumbing you already have :) but for now you should be fine.
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ridewhencan
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Post by ridewhencan » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:51 pm

I?m making progress but I?m not there yet. First off, I believe both ecu pins D8 and A20 are grounds. Because of that I took the load wire from my activation switch and connected it to D8 and leaving the power wire connected to a switched 12v source. The light on the switch wouldn?t come on though whether the input was inverted or not, so I connected the power wire to D8 and the load wire to a chassis ground and inverted the output. I figured with D8 sending 12v and the load wire grounded the switch would light when on showing the system was armed. It didn?t. Even though it doesn?t make sense to me, I?m going to try not inverting the input when I get home and see what happens. I fused the wire to D8 with 20 amps, just in case. J

Regarding the A20 output, if it?s inverted the solenoids don?t open with ignition. I don?t understand this either since I figure A20 is suppose to be a ground for the switched 12v running through the relay. With it not inverted, the solenoids open with ignition as if the system was armed and all the conditions met. Weird. Maybe it?s related to not having D8 sorted out yet.

That reminds me ? I can?t set my minimum engine speed any lower than 4006 rpm. Why would that be?

RMS - I like that idea for a dual stage and thanks for the suggestion to invert the output. Can you tell me any examples of how you or others have the input set up?

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Post by RMS » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:26 am

we did alot with the s200 n2o controls, but i haven't messed with them on the s300.

if you invert the output in the program (check the box) it should just reverse when you get the ground signal (compared to now you will get a ground when it was open, and an open when it was a ground). we made 350whp on stock sleeves using those outputs as one of the inputs for our own n2o control board.

as for inputs, we just grounded the ps and ac request to arm the system. fewer options to mess up with the older system :) for testing you can set up leds on the output lines... 12v to pos side and gnd side to the ecu. easy way to see the n2o lines activate.
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ridewhencan
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Fixed.

Post by ridewhencan » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:58 pm

RMS ? Thanks for the led idea and other suggestions. Simple and effective.

Here?s what worked for me, in case anyone else has the same issue. Invert both input and output. I ran the B8/PSP wire to the power prong and then ran a wire from the load prong to a chassis ground. I tested it on a two prong switch but when that worked I just changed the wires over to my three prong lighted steering wheel switch. The switch arms the system but the light doesn?t come on. That threw me off at first.

Now, if I could only get my engine speed to save a minimum lower than 4006 rpm.

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