nitrous control help?

Hondata installation questions / answers / issues.
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Super-Tuner
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nitrous control help?

Post by Super-Tuner »

This sets the amount of extra fuel to inject and the amount of ignition retard when using Nitrous. For a starting point for the fuel enrichment value take the value from the fuel table at peak engine hp e.g. if the engine makes 200 hp at 8000 rpm, and the fuel value at 8000 rpm and zero vacuum is 800, then you will need to enter a fuel enrichment value value of 100 for a 25 shot, 160 for a 40 shot etc. This is only a starting point - dyno testing with a wide band lambda meter is the best way of determining the correct values.

I have read this off the tech sections ,but im not understand how he figured to add 100 fuel inrichement for 25 and 160 for 40 ? how did he get this?

RMS
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Location: Visalia, CA

Post by RMS »

peak hp divided by the fuel value at that spot on the map equals fuel value PER hp: fuel value of 800/200hp=4 so 25hpx4(fuel value per hp)=n2o fuel value of 100 to ADD.

i don't like doing it that way because....
at 4000rpm there is twice as much n2o entering the engine as at 8000rpm (n2o is constant flow vs time while the intake cycle time of the engine shortens with rpm),

AND the air fuel ratio you will run with juice should be much richer than your NA fuel curve would provide (ABOUT 11.5:1 vs 13:1). so for a starting point i suggest two additional steps:

1) peak hp rpm divided by n20 engagement rpm TIMES the fuel value you previously figured out. so if you turn the n20 on at 3000 using values from the earlier example you get 8000rpm/3000rpmx100(25shot fuel value)=additional n2o fuel value of 266@3000rpm.
2) take the air fuel ratio you were running at peak hp and divide it by the air fuel ratio you wish to run with the n2o on. then multiply this and the sum of fuel value at engagement and the n2o fuel value: (266+whatever fuel value your map has at 3000rpm&wot)x(say you were running 13:1 NA but want 11.5:1 with the juice on...13/11.5=1.13)

this leads to an interesting point that few people new to n2o realize: a 25shot at 8000rpm is more like a 67shot at 3000rpm!...(8000rpm/3000rpm)x25hp@8000rpm=67hp@3000rpm

this gives you an air fuel ratio that is a close start for tuning at the lower rpm where the n2o comes on. with a simple n2o addition there is no way to avoid going very rich in the upper rpm unless you have a dedicated tune for juice that you can modify the map for...we use hondata in conjuction with our own daughter board/flip-chip-on-the-fly for tuning large shots of n2o. we've had great reliability with this system and two stages. stock sleeved crvtecs to 352whp/300wtq and stock b16 long blocks to 270whp on a single stage. hundreds of pounds of jucie ingested by both setups. hondata makes it possible with the program
mable parameters for n2o on-off.

hope that is clear if a bit long :)
RaVer Motorsports (559) 733-4711
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Super-Tuner
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Post by Super-Tuner »

thanks alot rms :D

CivicVTi
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Post by CivicVTi »

RMS could you please describe what is the 'daughter board/flip-chip-on-the-fly'?

RMS
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:35 am
Location: Visalia, CA

Post by RMS »

we have a daughter board that works in conjunction with Hondata's n2o output. the rom we use is a 27sf010. the memory is 4 times as large and is segregated into 4 seperate areas. our board allows the ecu to access three of those depending on if the engine is:
NA
1 stage of N2O
2 stages of N2O (also includes a programable 1, 2, or 3 tenths sec delay between stages to lessen the shock load of engagement)

the memory "flip" is automatic as the juice is engaged. this allows all the fuel to be tuned from within the rom (no issue with rich on top end, and no problem with the fuel value size). timing can be tuned from within the rom also (rather than one value of retard we can retard according to rpm).

we have made 352whp and 300wtq (at 5Krpm!) on a stock block crvtec that lasted over a year and ingested literally hundreds of pounds of juice with this system. we also hit 270whp on a totally stock B16 (pushing it harder than i like :) ) Hondata's programable n2o output parameters make it all possible.
RaVer Motorsports (559) 733-4711
ravermotorsports@earthlink.net

CivicVTi
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Post by CivicVTi »

If I understand (sorry english is not my native language) you have a board that is like swapping ROMs on the fly. So you can have different maps when Nitrous is active. Very interesting. How much these boards go for?

RMS
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:35 am
Location: Visalia, CA

Post by RMS »

so far all installs have been done in-house, but we have had quite a bit of interest from individuals who want to do it themselves. the only thing holding us back is customer support (SCARY MONSTERS!). our latest board revision was done with simplification in mind so we "may" offer it later this spring. thank you for the interest.
RaVer Motorsports (559) 733-4711
ravermotorsports@earthlink.net

CivicVTi
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Post by CivicVTi »

If you are interested in an international associate feel free to contact me. By the way, to resolve the problem of running lean at low rpm and rich at high, I took a look at the crane digital nitrous control (RPM dependent). Of course you do not have timing control but fuel delivery should be ideal.

Mura
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2 RMS

Post by Mura »

Where can I read more about your ECUs and daughter plate for nitrous purposes?
No dreams, just POWER.

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