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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:23 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
Posts: 27
Location: Switzerland
Hello,

I just tuned the whole week end a b16a with the s200. Everything was very good and the column 1 to 5 at 14.7. After all the test I then switched to closed loop to control that everything will going right. At Idle the short term correct to about +20%... (too lean..) so then I tried to come back in open loop and I had again the right numbers (14.7 at idle and between column 1 to 5)

The voltage from the O2 sensor was correct (0.45V at 14.7 after corrected about 20% from the short term)

I had to correct the whole full trim for about 8% more rich to have a 14.7 At idle. Does have someone already had this problem?

It's seems to have a difference between open loop and closed loop?

Thank you for your help.

Gil


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:49 pm 
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Have you tried changing the target voltage for closed loop?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Yes I tried. It was first to 0.51 I think, and I had to change it to 0.45 which is the stock voltage for 14.7 following the stock O2 setting in the seting menu. So after corrected the around 20% requested by the short term, it was well working around 0.45.

The O2 is the stock sensor from the car with the same ECU. One of the 2 ECu was a Hondata socketed ECU.

Thank you alot


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:37 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Hello Spunkster,

I haven't answer you correctly as you maybe understand that I changed the voltage target and have no more problem... No, to be more correct, I changed to 0.45v and then it was also to about 15-20% short term correction... (with long term also)

I compared two datalog records to understand what happened.

I tried to attached here my calibration .re4 but it's not allowed. which was tuned in open loop and then turned in closed loop operation. so I attached two datalog:

the datalog file "Autoroute1" was recorded open loop. If you check at the point with the cursor 46.36 I had 3997rpm, 566MAP, 14.35AFR, INJ 4.63ms and DUTY 15%.

the datalog file "closed loop2" was recorded closed loop with the same calibration. If you check at the point with the cursor 34:498 I had 4023rpm, 583MAP, S.TRIM 11% and already L.TRIM 14%... with almost the same INJ 4.70ms and 15% DUTY. and looking at my AFR gauge between 14.4 and 15.2 (swinging)

What do you think? It's strange?

As I said, I then tried to compensate the overall fuel trim for about +7%. (I was at -5% in open loop so I set it to +2%)

After that I had the same numbers at WOT (13AFR) but I had to richen the Idle and column 1..

Did someone already has this problem??

Thank you for your help.

Gil


Attachments:
closed loop 2.s2d [157.98 KiB]
Downloaded 131 times
autoroute1.s2d [267.36 KiB]
Downloaded 125 times
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Save the file as a bin and upload it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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here the calibration .BIN I've made by mistake the day before. It should be similar column 1 to 5 but column 6 to 10 not fine tuned. (the BIN file is from Saturday but I fine tuned the column 6 to 10 Sunday and haven't the s200 cable here at home...)

Do you think it could come that I made the whole map with -5% overall fuel trim first and then when switched closed loop it has affect it??

Thank you Spunkster


Attachments:
Copie Open loop operation.bin [23.74 KiB]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:21 pm 
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post the bin that you are having problems with a datalog showing the problem that used that bin.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Ok, I will make a BIN tomorrow with datalog.

Have a nice day.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:18 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Hello,

Here are the BIN files with new datalog file recorded just a few minute ago.

There are 1 BIN open loop and 1 CLOSED loop with each datalog file recorded.

As you can see open loop there is INJ 2ms and in closed loop the same but with 38% short term correction...

When in closed loop mode corrected by 38% short term at around 14.7 to 15 at idle, I had the read on my AFR gauge.

What do you think


Attachments:
open loop de 002.bin [32 KiB]
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:25 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Hello,

Here are the BIN files with new datalog file recorded just a few minute ago.

There are 1 BIN open loop and 1 CLOSED loop with my actual calibration and each datalog file recorded.

As you can see open loop there is INJ 2ms and in closed loop the same but with 38% short term correction...

When in closed loop mode corrected by 38% short term at around 14.7 to 15 at idle, I had the read on my AFR gauge.

I also tried with the P30 base map open loop idle at 12AFR and 14.7 closed loop with -4% short term corr, so it's the same problem.

What do you think?


Attachments:
idle CLOSED loop de 002.s2d [303.31 KiB]
Downloaded 114 times
idle open loop de 002.s2d [64.74 KiB]
Downloaded 114 times
CLOSED loop de 002.bin [32 KiB]
Downloaded 114 times
open loop de 002.bin [32 KiB]
Downloaded 117 times
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:52 am 
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Your O2 voltage in open loop is around 2.5-2.7V. IN closed loop it is reading 0-0.8

Do you have a wideband at all?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Yes a AEM UEGO gauge. Open loop connected to the O2 input with the parameter from AEM like 0.75v=11.5ARF, 1=12, 1.25=12.5, 1.5=13 and so one. I also controlled the voltage offset which is -0.17v to have the gauge and the s200 with the same value.

I already used this Wideband to tune an ITR but with s300. I made the map open loop and then switch to closed loop and that was perfect.

Have you seen the INJ is at 2ms in both datalog at idle with the same map but in closed loop, after 38%-40% added fuel...

I think the wideband work well as I read the same when the stock O2 turn around 0.5v I have 14.8 to 15.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Switzerland
Oh, Spunkster, Is there a difference using the O2 input or the D10-ELD Input with the wideband?? I have not tried using the D10-ELD, I just plug the Wideband in the O2 input and then changed the parameters to stock O2 (quick setting) to read the O2 sensor in closed loop.

Am I right??


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:05 pm 
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[quote="Gigi"]The O2 is the stock sensor from the car with the same ECU. One of the 2 ECu was a Hondata socketed ECU. quote]

Why did you say you were using the stock o2 sensor?

You cannot input a wideband signal to the O2 and run closed loop off of that.

http://www.hondata.com/techplxwiring.html


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:40 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:32 am
Posts: 27
Location: Switzerland
Here is how I connect the wideband:

I cut the white wire (O2 wire) and install a micro plug. That allow me to connect either the 0-5v from the wideband or the stock O2 sensor wire. (but never both signal)

So when I tune open loop I plug the wideband 0-5v in the input O2 and set in the option menu/ setting/wideband lambda: that the wideband signal will be on the O2 input. (there are two choice either the O2 input or the D10-ELD)
I also set my wideband voltage conversion table (e.g: 0.75v is 11.5AFR and so on)

After the tuning process in open loop, I disconnect the wideband wire signal and re-connect the stock O2 sensor in the O2 input. I re-select: "quick select" Stock that this input is the stock O2 sensor (0.4v = 14.994, 0.45 = 14.7 and 0.5v = 14.406)

Select closed loop in the parameter menu. Then It work in closed loop. But why the short term correct that way?

Tell me if I am wrong but following my datalog files, it seams that the motor need to have pulse with around INJ 2.0ms to turn at 14.7 at idle.

In open loop I have INJ 2ms and 14.7 (2.5v in the O2 input) and also visual on my gauge 14.7.

In closed loop I have INJ 2ms visual on my gauge 14.7 (no signal connected to any input) But why the short term has to correct 38 or 40% to have 2ms???

I hope my explanation is understandable.

Thank you for you help. I will try now to connecto my wideband in the D10-ELD to see is there is any difference.

Gil


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