RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

FlashPro Manager software
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R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:41 am

Hi

have anybody seen a strange behaviour of ignition on RDXes such as even negative numbers up to - (minus)10 deg at 4000 rpm? Angle goes down from 3600, minimum is at 4000 rpm, and goes up then.

Tried to modify all tables available for RDX, no affect. Even main ignition tables, where angle is 17-18 deg , do not work.
All knock tables, including retard and limits, all ignition corrections, boost, fuel - tried everything. No difference where is VTEC also.

High rpm ignition is around 12 deg, and can be controlled via ignition tables.

At the moment the calibration is equal stock for simplicity, exept MAF curve and injector size (MAF and injectors are bigger).
Engine with forged internals.
Forgot about turbo, it's bigger too.

Thanks for any idea
Attachments
-10 deg No Vtec.fpdl
(8.19 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
RDX Stock Vtec 90 mm Stock.fpcal
(12.58 KiB) Downloaded 108 times

ajpturbopittsburgh
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:58 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by ajpturbopittsburgh » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:39 pm

You need to zero out your knock ignition limit values in boost in the low and high cam tables. You have some knock control being applied. Looks like you have a knock retard value of about 7 degrees and your knock ignition limit values in the low cam are negative and I think the 7 dgrees is being applied to that also.

I see -6 to -9.5 in those tables and if you are taking 7 degrees more retard from that then that will bottom you out in timing....I'm not sure you can command less than -10 but I'm not sure.

R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:49 am

I tried zero limits, unfortunately, it does not work.
Also tried to lower retards even to zero.
Tried to lower sensitivity of knock sensor too.
Ignition behaviour was the same.

Then, decided to return to almost stock as starting point for simplicity.
What does look strange there is no any knock counts activity in all datalogs. I have one thought might be something wrong with knock sensor.

ajpturbopittsburgh
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:58 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by ajpturbopittsburgh » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:14 am

In the cal that you have posted nothing is zeroed out so I'm not sure what you are talking about. The best thing to do is to post a calibration and the log that came from it.

R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:40 am

Here are cal and datalog with zero limits and zero retards. Looks the same, minus 10 deg at 4000 rpm and no retards.

Would like to ask guys from Hondata - is it possible that cause in updated software? When I started to work with this RDX, everything looked Ok, no such problem. You fixed MAP reading then, might be some bug in updated software. I run 1.9.8.0 at the moment.

And still no knock counts in datalogs. I've seen false knocks sometimes from time to time in previous FP Manager.
Attachments
No Knock.fpdl
(17.73 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
No Knock.fpcal
(11.05 KiB) Downloaded 108 times

VitViper
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Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by VitViper » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:34 pm

This behavior isn't surprising, you have limited options to tune ignition on these cars since it's apparent there is more logic in the ECU that's adjusting the timing map than just KIL. We noticed it originally when the RDX FlashPro first came out and a friend was testing it on his car.

R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:23 am

VitViper wrote:This behavior isn't surprising, you have limited options to tune ignition on these cars since it's apparent there is more logic in the ECU that's adjusting the timing map than just KIL. We noticed it originally when the RDX FlashPro first came out and a friend was testing it on his car.
yeah, seems, you are right, today tried the last beta 1.9.9.0, no result.
The only thing - turned off boost-controller, got back to wastegate spring around 11-12 psi, and everything is going predictable now. Normal ignition and normal torque curve.
Looks like a problem is in level of boost, but RDX's cal has just single map for a target boost, and any manipulations with it do not work, unfortunately.

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Hondata
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Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by Hondata » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:38 am

There was a problem datalogging with the RDX, including the ignition timing. Please update to latest beta version.
Hondata

R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:30 am

Hondata wrote:There was a problem datalogging with the RDX, including the ignition timing. Please update to latest beta version.
thanks, just updated and tried. The same picture.
Now I think a problem is not in software, ignition is going down fast when boost higher than 12-13 psi, no matter what numbers in boost map.
Thinking to use piggyback to fool two MAP sensors.

R2Racing
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:39 am

cut MAP and BOOST sensors and add piggyback there , clamp signals so ECU can not see more than 13 psi.
Seems, it does work, no any retard and flat torque curve.
Thanks for all who took part in my headache ))

VitViper
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Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by VitViper » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 pm

The ignition timing control is such crap on the RDX... I have a couple customers... 3psi of boost @ 2200 rpm and -3* of timing. I bet that drives REAL nice.

Can we get some further R&D on this platform or is are inability to do any ignition timing tuning just going to be the norm?

R2Racing
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by R2Racing » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:37 pm

VitViper wrote:The ignition timing control is such crap on the RDX... I have a couple customers... 3psi of boost @ 2200 rpm and -3* of timing. I bet that drives REAL nice.

Can we get some further R&D on this platform or is are inability to do any ignition timing tuning just going to be the norm?
just found ignition relation on RDX. Ignition drop around 4000 rpm directly depends of IAT, as low temp as much that drop, and drop goes away after approx 40 C (104 F ??) These days we had very cold days, so customer has seen persistent drop every day even on warmed car. And no any map in Hondata for IAT below 40C.

I'm thinking to use the same piggyback again to modify IAT that ECU can not see temp below 40C

the_wrench116
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Re: RDX, huge retard at 3600-4400 rpm

Post by the_wrench116 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:30 am

what??? most of the time these car spend running with the car seeing IAT below 105 F. now they see 34-50 F so your telling me that your customer cars run like crap all the time?.?

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