FN2 MAP tuning question

FlashPro Manager software
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Furious
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:22 am

FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by Furious »

Dear all,
I have tuned many cars based on S300, KPRO, Crome and so on, but I don't fully understand tuning process on FlashPro (FN2 tuning).
I have enabled speed/density fuel table type with minimum pressure 0mbar so I assume that direct values from fuel map should be applied.
I am surprised that AFR is stable without special tuning on all VTC degrees, and when I try to apply any correction for example 10% more fuel I do not see any changes in next run. I assume that speed/density fuel values are not used by FlashPro, but AFM take place here.
I don't understand also why software suggest to correct fuel - 12% when AFRcorr shows 12,81:1 - which should be rather fine. Please check screenshot.
Could you please suggest what I'm doing wrongly?
Thank you.
Attachments
low.fpcal
datalog
(19.23 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
low.fpcal
calibration fn2
(19.23 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
AFR difference
AFR difference
afr_log.JPG (93.61 KiB) Viewed 391 times

Furious
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:22 am

Re: FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by Furious »

datalog again
Attachments
low.fpdl
datalog
(25.25 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

EFICU
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by EFICU »

In that range where it is reading rich in your fuel table, the car isn't entering open loop for fueling because you have the WOT tables set to 12.89. You need to set columns 9 and 10 to 12.46 in order to make sure the ECU enters open loop under WOT in those cells. I will attach a revised version of your calibration with the changes so you can look it over.

Your high cam WOT table should be adjusted as well, but I don't want to overstep my bounds with the information you are requesting so I left that table alone. I only adjusted the low cam WOT table where you see an issue.

Feel free to let me know if you have questions on either section. But take a look at the low cam WOT table on your file compared to mine.
Furious.FN2Cal.RevisedWOT.fpcal
(19.26 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

Furious
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:22 am

Re: FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by Furious »

EFICU, thanks for your help and effort, but I have additional questions.
1. looking at 5500rpm low cam, there is measured AFR 12.94, why Flashpro still suggest to decrease fuel by -4%? What AFR value it try to reach and how it can be adjusted? (image_low5500.JPG)
2. high cam WOT table you refer to, last two columns are set to 12.46 and 12.14. These are rich, why you suggest 12.46 as the only one correct value?
In current high cam WOT table setup in fact I'm not able to tune the fuel map, because there is the same AFR measure for all VTC cam angles 0-50.. quite strange. I don't know what VTC angle is best for given rpm.
3. If I initially tune AFM table, so it takes AFR values I would like to see, then change high cam WOT table lets say from 12.14 to 12.46. Does my measured AFR values goes away?
4. Lets say I want to tune speed/density (MAP), under Fuel Table Type, should I always disable "AFM enabled"? What if I disable it and set minimum pressure for speed/density let say 700mbar? AFM will still operate below 700mbar?
Thanks in advance.
Attachments
5500rpm low cam
5500rpm low cam
image_low5500.JPG (130.82 KiB) Viewed 370 times

EFICU
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by EFICU »

1: The only thing I can think of is, your lambda overlay settings haven't been adjusted. Go to Options > Settings > Lambda Overlay and post a screenshot of that popup window. On my FP Manager, I show your fueling dead on at 0% from 4500 to 6000 RPMs. So I am pretty sure your settings haven't been adjusted to suite your target AFR.
FN2WOTScreenshot.JPG
FN2WOTScreenshot.JPG (108.96 KiB) Viewed 367 times
2: With using speed density, there is no need to have it dip into the 12.14. Even using AFM there is no need for it to dip to 12.14, 12.46 across those columns is sufficient to transition the ECU into open loop mode. These don't decide the AFR, they just tell the ECU to transition into open loop. You then tune your fuel tables as you have where the fueling is good up top. You certainly don't have to change the settings, but the more you get in the habit of making this linear, the better your overall tuning strategy will be. You will need to tune each cam angle individually as you have on the low cam it looks like. Then tune the high cam in the same manner. Another issue I see is you don't have "MAP to determine WOT" checked under closed loop. This should be checked to ensure the WOT fueling is commanded when the MAP pressure falls into the determined range.

2.1: Another thing I noticed is your car never engaged into VTEC throughout the pull. Looking through your file, you have VTEC minimum engagement set at 124mph, did you want this set so high for a reason? For this reason, your car is never transitioning onto the high cam at all. I would be happy to help you with cam angle mapping. Without a dyno, you essentially use your fuel tables to determine the best cam angle mapping. I can help you read that as well if you would like. But running the RPMs too high without engaging into VTEC can cause harm to the engine, so be careful there.

3: If you tune on the AFM, I don't know 100% if your commanded AFR will be the same. I always set the values to 12.46 whether I am tuning the AFM or speed density, because all I want is the ECU to transition into open loop, then I make the AFR what I want either AFM or fuel tables for MAP based tuning. I would imagine it is the same, but I don't know for sure. For the time being, don't worry about changing the WOT tables for the high cam.

4: To tune speed density you should disable the AFM by unchecking the box for "AFM enabled", leaving the speed density box checked. It still makes the air flow meter to act as the intake temp sensor. SO don't remove the air flow meter, but uncheck the box for it. A lot of this depends on your modification list, what is the modification list on this car? If it is stock, you are probably best to run on the MAF sensor, intake and other bolt ons generally like to be tuned on speed density. Don't disable the AFM and set the minimum pressure to 700mbar, then it will cause an issue because it won't have a reading to go by. Leave the pressure set to 0, then choose whether you want to run the AFM or speed density. If you leave both boxes checked, and set the minimum pressure to 700mbar, then it will run the AFM until it sees the 700mbar and then use the speed density tables. Technically you would be running a hybrid tuning, which I have had no experience with either. Some people have, but I can't shed any light on that unfortunately.

Furious
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:22 am

Re: FN2 MAP tuning question

Post by Furious »

All clear, thanks a lot!

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