+9psi map for CVT

Civic 2016+ 1.5 Turbo
janemar
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:24 am

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by janemar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:49 am

Just to update this thread.

I finished up with my tune on my car. Here are my thoughts.


1. +9psi(or 24psi) tune is a misnomer.

For us CVT users running on 92octane(100RON.) In reality, you would like to add +9psi(24psi) from 4000rpm upto 5500rpm only and quickly drop it to +6(21psi) upto redline or around 6000rpm.

The reason is, I found that running higher than 21psi after 5500rpm is simply killing power MAYBE because of how small our turbo is and also how narrow and short the exhaust ports for this 1.5T. It produces too much heat, back pressure and killing power in the process.

You'll better of lowering the boost as much as 18psi at 6000rpm and just play / raise ignition timing(knock ign retard.) I don't have dyno to back this up but I can see it in my log and using my butt feel. LOL.


2. As mentioned above, timing is key! Don't be overwhelmed by how much high of a boost your neighbors' civic is running. Again, LOWER boost with HIGH ignition timing is way more powerful than sky high boost with high ignition retard. Don't be afraid to raise those timings up, just keep an eye on the K.Control. If it shoots up higher than 80% then back down your timing, repeat.


3. AFR is a bit forgiving in these 1.5T mills. 10.7 up to 12 AFR won't give that much of a power difference. I personally run 10.7-10.9 OR maybe it is just the ECU trying to relearn my AFRs and want to set its own afr mapping. Again, based on my but dyno only. Hondata or anyone can school me on this if you deem fit.

4. If you track your car alot, like weekly or monthly and you live in a humid and hot climate(like mine here in Philipines.) I suggest you run +3psi tune max! Running even the supplied +6psi map bli dly and calling it a day is stupid to say the least especially if you beat it on the track. First to raise is IAT, ECT and most probably oil temps and next thing you now, your turbo is toast or what not.

If you want to run +6psi map on a hot track, at the very least, monitor your IAT2 and ECT temps using the bluetooth phone app. Back down if it reach 60C or 140F.

There's a lot of topspeed runs posted on youtube with this new 1.5T civic. You can notice the water temp gauge raise, on some extreme vids, it is nearing Hot mark.

Jun43
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:59 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Jun43 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:56 am

i'm running 27psi after 4000rpm running at +2-3ign with no heat stroke problem. I also dont live somewhere where its 100F+ all the time. sounds like you need an aftermarket intercooler

janemar
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:24 am

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by janemar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:51 am

Jun43 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:56 am
i'm running 27psi after 4000rpm running at +2-3ign with no heat stroke problem. I also dont live somewhere where its 100F+ all the time. sounds like you need an aftermarket intercooler
Yes, big + if you live in colder weather. Also, have you tried doing and datalogging a 140-150mph pull? That's were the heat problem usually comes up. A stock tune or +3psi will get you to those speeds without or less increase in IAt and ECT but of course slower versus +6 or +9psi tune with the trade off of higher IAT amd ECTs.

A couple of 0-60 or rolling 100mph pulls isnt an issue for me as well even when I played with 25+psi.

Jun43
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:59 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Jun43 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am

No i haven't done any pulls that goes to 140-150mph. The car does not make enough power to reach that high on most race tracks. if you planning to do that often going that fast. I would add an oil cooler too if this is a race car

janemar
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:24 am

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by janemar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:14 pm

Jun43 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am
No i haven't done any pulls that goes to 140-150mph. The car does not make enough power to reach that high on most race tracks. if you planning to do that often going that fast. I would add an oil cooler too if this is a race car
No, I have a completely stock car. I just happen to be a curious guy that loves track days, high speed driving(we really dont have "speed limits" back here on our tropical 3rd world land. LOL.)

I understand your concerns and appreciate all the suggestions you gave from the start. Those will be on the pipeline together with the ethanol sensor...


Bottoline is proper education... My intention is to provide guidance on 1000+ FP users that are running +6psi or custom high power tunes with bonestock Intercooler, radiator, no oil cooler, etc. which I assume is the majority of users here.

A couple of dyno run, or 0-60s, 0-100s pulls, merging to freeway or overtaking semis wont hurt your car. BUT, if you are careless and just beat the hell out of it. You can potentially damage something. If you want it to play safe and don't know what your doing, better to reflash back to stock or just run the +3psi. Track days and topspeed tested already, it won't heat up your ECT and IAT that much and you can beat the hell out of your car longer(crucial if you want to familiarize yourself on the track or you just enjoy driving hard continuously without thinking much about the temps.,) hence more forgiving to your engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JceDg3OgwZU

Emount91
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Emount91 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:31 am

janemar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:49 am
Just to update this thread.

I finished up with my tune on my car. Here are my thoughts.


1. +9psi(or 24psi) tune is a misnomer.

For us CVT users running on 92octane(100RON.) In reality, you would like to add +9psi(24psi) from 4000rpm upto 5500rpm only and quickly drop it to +6(21psi) upto redline or around 6000rpm.

The reason is, I found that running higher than 21psi after 5500rpm is simply killing power MAYBE because of how small our turbo is and also how narrow and short the exhaust ports for this 1.5T. It produces too much heat, back pressure and killing power in the process.

You'll better of lowering the boost as much as 18psi at 6000rpm and just play / raise ignition timing(knock ign retard.) I don't have dyno to back this up but I can see it in my log and using my butt feel. LOL.


2. As mentioned above, timing is key! Don't be overwhelmed by how much high of a boost your neighbors' civic is running. Again, LOWER boost with HIGH ignition timing is way more powerful than sky high boost with high ignition retard. Don't be afraid to raise those timings up, just keep an eye on the K.Control. If it shoots up higher than 80% then back down your timing, repeat.


3. AFR is a bit forgiving in these 1.5T mills. 10.7 up to 12 AFR won't give that much of a power difference. I personally run 10.7-10.9 OR maybe it is just the ECU trying to relearn my AFRs and want to set its own afr mapping. Again, based on my but dyno only. Hondata or anyone can school me on this if you deem fit.

4. If you track your car alot, like weekly or monthly and you live in a humid and hot climate(like mine here in Philipines.) I suggest you run +3psi tune max! Running even the supplied +6psi map bli dly and calling it a day is stupid to say the least especially if you beat it on the track. First to raise is IAT, ECT and most probably oil temps and next thing you now, your turbo is toast or what not.

If you want to run +6psi map on a hot track, at the very least, monitor your IAT2 and ECT temps using the bluetooth phone app. Back down if it reach 60C or 140F.

There's a lot of topspeed runs posted on youtube with this new 1.5T civic. You can notice the water temp gauge raise, on some extreme vids, it is nearing Hot mark.
What changes did you make to your torque limit table? If the torque limits are truly in nM, this tune by default limits the car to 187ft/lbs of torque (250nM = 187ft/lbs). I am extremely confused as Hondata has said their CVT saw 205-210ft/lbs of dyno torque, which would probably need a limit of around ~285nM. How is that possible if they limit the CVT in the tune to 250nM (187ft/lbs)??

Emount91
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Emount91 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:13 pm

Emount91 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:31 am
janemar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:49 am
Just to update this thread.

I finished up with my tune on my car. Here are my thoughts.


1. +9psi(or 24psi) tune is a misnomer.

For us CVT users running on 92octane(100RON.) In reality, you would like to add +9psi(24psi) from 4000rpm upto 5500rpm only and quickly drop it to +6(21psi) upto redline or around 6000rpm.

The reason is, I found that running higher than 21psi after 5500rpm is simply killing power MAYBE because of how small our turbo is and also how narrow and short the exhaust ports for this 1.5T. It produces too much heat, back pressure and killing power in the process.

You'll better of lowering the boost as much as 18psi at 6000rpm and just play / raise ignition timing(knock ign retard.) I don't have dyno to back this up but I can see it in my log and using my butt feel. LOL.


2. As mentioned above, timing is key! Don't be overwhelmed by how much high of a boost your neighbors' civic is running. Again, LOWER boost with HIGH ignition timing is way more powerful than sky high boost with high ignition retard. Don't be afraid to raise those timings up, just keep an eye on the K.Control. If it shoots up higher than 80% then back down your timing, repeat.


3. AFR is a bit forgiving in these 1.5T mills. 10.7 up to 12 AFR won't give that much of a power difference. I personally run 10.7-10.9 OR maybe it is just the ECU trying to relearn my AFRs and want to set its own afr mapping. Again, based on my but dyno only. Hondata or anyone can school me on this if you deem fit.

4. If you track your car alot, like weekly or monthly and you live in a humid and hot climate(like mine here in Philipines.) I suggest you run +3psi tune max! Running even the supplied +6psi map bli dly and calling it a day is stupid to say the least especially if you beat it on the track. First to raise is IAT, ECT and most probably oil temps and next thing you now, your turbo is toast or what not.

If you want to run +6psi map on a hot track, at the very least, monitor your IAT2 and ECT temps using the bluetooth phone app. Back down if it reach 60C or 140F.

There's a lot of topspeed runs posted on youtube with this new 1.5T civic. You can notice the water temp gauge raise, on some extreme vids, it is nearing Hot mark.
What changes did you make to your torque limit table? If the torque limits are truly in nM, this tune by default limits the car to 187ft/lbs of torque (250nM = 187ft/lbs). I am extremely confused as Hondata has said their CVT saw 205-210ft/lbs of dyno torque, which would probably need a limit of around ~285nM. How is that possible if they limit the CVT in the tune to 250nM (187ft/lbs)??
answered my own question by getting a custom tune with the help of EFI Calibrations!

Yes, you have to increase that torque limit table to see more power, my car was bouncing off of the torque limiter big time with just the 6+ PSI tune and using MAP to determine WOT selected, no other mods and no other adjustments... I have since increased the 2000-4500RPM range from 250nm to 290nm (with blending in the 1750 and 5000RPM cells) and the car has significantly more power. I'm sure it can go higher, but that is all I am willing to go to with a CVT for now. The car is still not needing to use all 22.5PSI of boost, I only hit about 19-20 at WOT because the engine is doing the work it should be without the big boost.

Emount91
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Emount91 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:25 pm

selecting "use MAP to determine WOT" also gets your AFRs at higher loads in check. so by default at WOT, the ECU is aiming for a 14.7AFR. Honda has these cars run in closed loop at WOT, which I guess is safe on these new direct injection turbos, but you won't see a good amount of engine power so the turbo will boost at it's max to get you there. You want something closer to 10-11AFR under heavy load/WOT for power, which also means the engine is making more power on it's own and not relying on heavy boost in the 22-23 range to give it said power. selecting "use MAP to determine WOT" will correct those higher load AFRs to be something safer/more powerful.

(usually if you tell someone your car is running 14.7AFR at WOT, a wave of fear will wash over their face, along with some comments about blowing your engine up)

I'm guessing this is how Hondata has dynos of a 230 ft/lb CVT, they raised the torque limiter way up for the dyno pull, liked the numbers they saw and advertised those, then decreased the tq limiter on the tune sent out to customers so they dont damage anything and get blamed for it. I don't blame them at all for that, but I think they should at least divulge that information to people so they can decide if they want to take the risk or not.

I definitely thought I was going to have those dynoed hondata CVT power numbers plug and play right out of the box.

Con
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:48 am

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Con » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:47 am

选择“使用地图确定WOT”也会在较高负载下检查您的AFR。[引号=Emount 91 post_id=105317 time=1571858720 user_id=29576]选择“Usemap以确定WOT”。因此,在WOT默认情况下,ECU的目标是14.7AFR。本田有这些汽车在WOT的闭环运行,我想这是安全的这些新的直接喷射涡轮增压器,但你不会看到一个很好的发动机功率,所以涡轮将在它的最大,以达到你那里。你想要更接近10-11 AFR在重载/WOT下的动力,这也意味着发动机正在自己制造更多的动力,而不是依靠22-23范围内的大推力来给它所述的动力。选择“使用映射来确定WOT”将纠正那些较高的负载AFR,使之更安全/更强大。(通常情况下,如果你告诉别人你的车在WOT运行14.7AFR,一波恐惧会席卷他们的脸,还有一些关于引擎熄火的评论)我猜这就是Hondata拥有230英尺/磅CVT的原因,他们提高了拉力的扭矩限制器,喜欢他们看到的数字并做广告,然后降低发送给客户的tq限制器,这样他们就不会损坏任何东西,并为此受到指责。我一点也不责怪他们,但我认为他们至少应该把这些信息泄露给人们,这样他们才能决定是否愿意冒这个险。我肯定以为我会让那些令人不快的荣誉,CVT电源号码,即插即用。[/引述]
So the CVT torque can be set to 300NM, right?

Emount91
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by Emount91 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:12 am

Con wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:47 am
选择“使用地图确定WOT”也会在较高负载下检查您的AFR。[引号=Emount 91 post_id=105317 time=1571858720 user_id=29576]选择“Usemap以确定WOT”。因此,在WOT默认情况下,ECU的目标是14.7AFR。本田有这些汽车在WOT的闭环运行,我想这是安全的这些新的直接喷射涡轮增压器,但你不会看到一个很好的发动机功率,所以涡轮将在它的最大,以达到你那里。你想要更接近10-11 AFR在重载/WOT下的动力,这也意味着发动机正在自己制造更多的动力,而不是依靠22-23范围内的大推力来给它所述的动力。选择“使用映射来确定WOT”将纠正那些较高的负载AFR,使之更安全/更强大。(通常情况下,如果你告诉别人你的车在WOT运行14.7AFR,一波恐惧会席卷他们的脸,还有一些关于引擎熄火的评论)我猜这就是Hondata拥有230英尺/磅CVT的原因,他们提高了拉力的扭矩限制器,喜欢他们看到的数字并做广告,然后降低发送给客户的tq限制器,这样他们就不会损坏任何东西,并为此受到指责。我一点也不责怪他们,但我认为他们至少应该把这些信息泄露给人们,这样他们才能决定是否愿意冒这个险。我肯定以为我会让那些令人不快的荣誉,CVT电源号码,即插即用。[/引述]
So the CVT torque can be set to 300NM, right?
It can be, yes. I have not tried to set it to anything higher than 290. It rips at 290 with Use MAP to Determine WOT, so I do not think it needs to be that high.

But you have the option of changing that to whatever you'd like.

gcapraz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: +9psi map for CVT

Post by gcapraz » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:48 am

janemar wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:49 am
Just to update this thread.

For us CVT users running on 92octane(100RON.) In reality, you would like to add +9psi(24psi) from 4000rpm upto 5500rpm only and quickly drop it to +6(21psi) upto redline or around 6000rpm.

The reason is, I found that running higher than 21psi after 5500rpm is simply killing power MAYBE because of how small our turbo is and also how narrow and short the exhaust ports for this 1.5T. It produces too much heat, back pressure and killing power in the process.

You'll better of lowering the boost as much as 18psi at 6000rpm and just play / raise ignition timing(knock ign retard.) I don't have dyno to back this up but I can see it in my log and using my butt feel. LOL.


2. As mentioned above, timing is key! Don't be overwhelmed by how much high of a boost your neighbors' civic is running. Again, LOWER boost with HIGH ignition timing is way more powerful than sky high boost with high ignition retard. Don't be afraid to raise those timings up, just keep an eye on the K.Control. If it shoots up higher than 80% then back down your timing, repeat.
Hi I have realize the same thing with you but what about to set ingnition timing or knock limit? Do you have any advise?

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