High S.Trim - Lower than -10%

[arnoldod]

Hello,

It's me again and sorry if I have been bothering you with a lot of query but I cannot find tuner who can tune the car properly. Thus, I need to do this myself.

I use +3 PSI basemap and I only changed torque limiter value as per Hondata suggestion in Hondata YouTube channel.

I did a quick datalog yesterday and find my S.Trim went below -10%, which means the AFM running very lean, especially at part throttle.



I read FlashPro help regarding AFM adjustment but I admit I'm afraid to make adjustment to it.

Would you be able to help? I attach the calibration file as well as the datalog for your review and adjust.

Thank you in advance and appreciate your support.

[EFICU]

Hi Arnold,

The 100% l. trim is some type of error according to Hondata viewtopic.php?t=22458 , so nothing worry about there.

As far as your fueling, making adjustments to the AFM scaling is no problem. Since you're negative, you essentially want to pull percentage from AFM table in the voltage range where it needs it.

Give the attached file a drive and see how it goes. To dial in the WOT fueling, you would need to make wide open pull so we can see the fueling at WOT.

[arnoldod]

Hi Arnold,

The 100% l. trim is some type of error according to Hondata viewtopic.php?t=22458 , so nothing worry about there.

As far as your fueling, making adjustments to the AFM scaling is no problem. Since you're negative, you essentially want to pull percentage from AFM table in the voltage range where it needs it.

Give the attached file a drive and see how it goes. To dial in the WOT fueling, you would need to make wide open pull so we can see the fueling at WOT.

Hi EFICU,

Thank you and appreciate the help. I will give the calibration a try and see if it will improve partial throttle to ideal level. If I understand correctly, S.Trim should be within -10% and +10% range. Anything below or higher than the range is not good for the engine.

[EFICU]

Yeah take it for a spin and see how it looks. There is another thing we can do to improve the partial throttle. But let's see how the fueling looks on this file and we will discuss that next time. I don't want to you to be looking for both things at once, focus on one issue at a time.

Technically anything in the single digit fuel trims is acceptable. I always shoot for much better, + or -5% is my limit personally for people I help, I'm a bit OCD about it. If your trims are higher than 10% either way, it shouldn't be bad for your engine per say, but you are definitely not optimized and you're giving up performance, drivability, and fuel economy. All of which we strive to make the best in these tunes.

Let me know how it goes.

[arnoldod]

Yeah take it for a spin and see how it looks. There is another thing we can do to improve the partial throttle. But let's see how the fueling looks on this file and we will discuss that next time. I don't want to you to be looking for both things at once, focus on one issue at a time.

Technically anything in the single digit fuel trims is acceptable. I always shoot for much better, + or -5% is my limit personally for people I help, I'm a bit OCD about it. If your trims are higher than 10% either way, it shouldn't be bad for your engine per say, but you are definitely not optimized and you're giving up performance, drivability, and fuel economy. All of which we strive to make the best in these tunes.

Let me know how it goes.

Thank you and I highly appreciate your experience and help on this matter. I will take the car with the adjusted AFM calibration and get back to you with datalog.

[arnoldod]

Hi EFICU,

I did a quick spin. I was still afraid to do full throttle run as I am worry about boost overboosting beyond limit.

In terms of AFM, S.Trim often falls below -10% at partial throttle.

I create a new calibration to tackle the boost issue. A fellow Hondata user suggested me not to use optimized turbo response and dial down the torque number.

Let's see how the new calibration work. I will post the result here so we can tune the AFM and bring the S.Trim close to ideal target.

I'm attaching the datalog from the old tunes for your reference.

[EFICU]

Hi Arnold,

It will take a few revisions to get it dialed in pretty good. A large portion of the MAF scaling was a lot better on this drive than the previous file. The datalog you posted is using the file I attached above for you right?

What is your concern with overboost? Seems like a lot of members are running the +6 file with no issues. So if you're running the +3, you should have little to worry about with overboost.

Verify for me that this datalog is with my revised file, and I will send you the next version. Also, do you mind if I change one setting in the background that may make things better?

[arnoldod]

Hi Arnold,

It will take a few revisions to get it dialed in pretty good. A large portion of the MAF scaling was a lot better on this drive than the previous file. The datalog you posted is using the file I attached above for you right?

What is your concern with overboost? Seems like a lot of members are running the +6 file with no issues. So if you're running the +3, you should have little to worry about with overboost.

Verify for me that this datalog is with my revised file, and I will send you the next version. Also, do you mind if I change one setting in the background that may make things better?

Hi EFICU,

Yes. The datalog run was based on the calibration that you attached in previous post.

I'm very concern that boost could go beyond desired boost of +3 PSI, which should be around 19 PSI (1.3 bar). During the short run, the wastegate allow boost up to 28 PSI (1.94 bar) as indicated by the below datalog Excel export.



This is with +3PSI calibration with torque value limit change. I changed the torque limit value following Hondata torque recommendation for CVT as posted in YouTube.

I am very concern because there are 3 Civics from my tuner workshop with broken conrod due to +6 PSI Hondata basemap due to undesired overboost (boosting over 1.5 bar).

A fellow Hondata member suggested me to de-activate optimized turbo option in modification. Long story short, I tried that today and I still see boost went beyond the desired max boost level.

Am I reading boost level at the wrong table?

[arnoldod]

I took screenshot from the datalog when the boost spike up to 1.5 bar.


I found a user sharing 6 PSI datalog from Hondata forum and the boost went over 2 bar.


I was experimenting today with very conservative torque value, & choose only throttle response improvement from modification. The overboost was only went up to 1.5 bar


Should I copy the column from 0.592 PA column to 1.000 PA column? I'm afraid wastegate opening will deliver higher boost as RPM increase when I'm doing open throttle.

[EFICU]

Hi Arnold,

Can you post this datalog where you saw the boost spike to 1.9 bar?

[arnoldod]

Hi Arnold,

Can you post this datalog where you saw the boost spike to 1.9 bar?

Hi EFICU,

Please find the datalog attached. Datalog capture the overboost in 4 minutes 45 second. I raised this concern in this forum as well but Hondata team response was generic.

This is using the basemap with AFM adjustment.

Thanks to you the partial throttle has improved. In fact, S.Trim is spot on 0% when accelerating. I noticed 1 moment when short trim go lower than -10% occur during deceleration fuel cut.

[EFICU]

I am curious now Arnold, I only see between 10-11 PSI of boost at 4:45. Can you attach your display on here for me, your Flashpro manager display from these screenshots. I am wondering if there is something in the settings on yours or something. But I see the BP commanded almost dead on to BP throughout that area. I don't see a spike to 28psi.

I have one more thing to change for you on partial throttle, but let's get your boost pressure issue resolved and then we will do that.

Let me know.

[arnoldod]

I am curious now Arnold, I only see between 10-11 PSI of boost at 4:45. Can you attach your display on here for me, your Flashpro manager display from these screenshots. I am wondering if there is something in the settings on yours or something. But I see the BP commanded almost dead on to BP throughout that area. I don't see a spike to 28psi.

I have one more thing to change for you on partial throttle, but let's get your boost pressure issue resolved and then we will do that.

Let me know.

Hi EFICU,

Please find screen capture from 4:45 datalog, which capture 1.8 boost:


This is screen capture from the same datalog showing 1.9 bar boost:


I agree. Once the boost pressure issue resolved, we can continue working on the partial throttle. As much as possible, I want to use the calibration with your AFM adjustment.

I hope I read the wrong boost parameter from the datalog.

[EFICU]

Well Arnold, I don't know whether to hope I am wrong or hope I am right, haha. In your datalog, at both points you reference I am only seeing 10.8 and 13.8psi. I think the problem you have is your display is set to the wrong pressure parameter. You need to go into Options > Sensors, then change the BP to "/psi under the "units" drop down.

Arnold10thgenboostsettings_LI.jpg (723.29 KiB) Viewed 2955 times

Here are my screenshots of your datalog with the setting done properly.

4:45

Arnold10thgenboost4.45.JPG (346.44 KiB) Viewed 2955 times

5:03

Arnold10thgenboost5.03.JPG (347.82 KiB) Viewed 2955 times

[EFICU]

I also think a good idea may be to put the ECU back to stock, and recheck. If it was something in the tune, that would tell you. But I am pretty sure it's the setting I mentioned in the above post.