First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

FK2 Civic Type R 2015-2017 and FK8 Civic Type R 2017-2018
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daveboyle
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:42 pm

First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by daveboyle »

Hello,

I have loosely tuned everything from an 87 turbo supra to 400hp lsvtec civics but this is obviously completely different.

I read the tuning bible and that was incredibly helpful so thank you.

To start I have:
Mishimoto intake
PRL downpipe and mid pipe
Remus exhaust
PRL intercooler
only ever run 94 octane, sometimes 93

Dipping my toes in the water I put the 93 PRL downpipe and intercooler tune on with improved throttle position and full power in every gear and a few other mods checked off. I noticed as soon as i began to play with the torque table some of the mod checkmarks disappeared because of my changes.

I decided to start small and work with the torque tables and the AirC table first. I took a baseline 4th gear datalog and had 0 knock retard on all cylinders and was at 79% HPFP duty cycle at 2969rpm on 12.9psi

I increased the AirC table to 26psi or 280. From my understanding and from reading the posts here that means 1bar cylinder pressure plus 1.8bar of boost as an upper limit.

QUESTION 1. I set this value across the entire rev range and on account of the fact that the turbo becomes in efficient at 27psi is this bad and why wouldn't this value be the same across the entire rev band?

I then increased the upper values from 3500 to 7000 at 100% throttle in the R+ torque tables for gears 3 through 6. I increased the values from 480nm at 3000 to 500nm at 3500, 520nm at 4000 and 540nm at 4500 up to 7000. I then interpolated them horizontally down to 69% throttle to smooth the values out and did some 2nd through to top of 4th gear datalogs and saw no knock. I saw 81% HPFP duty cycle at 3010rpm at 13.2psi.

QUESTION 2. I increased the torque values from 480 to 540 and while I want to say the car felt quicker but I saw no additional boost. On both runs my IAT1 was around 90 degrees and there was no knock on any cylinder. Why no additional boost? The BP CMD went up by like 1psi but the actual BP and map were almost the same.

It may warrant to tell you that the outside temp was -2 Celsius but in the summer I saw 23psi. My BP CMD is higher, my Torque table is set higher, the torque limit table is 600nm across the rev band. My IGN never changed at all either from baseline 480nm demand to 540nm demand.

I know I am doing something wrong and I would really appreciate someone stepping me through where my thought process fell apart.

Thanks for your help

Dave
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Hondata
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by Hondata »

Post the calibration and datalog. There are a lot of limit tables and the boost will be the lowest of all of them. Also the turbo is very small so you need to watch the wastegate position to check it is not fully closed.
Hondata
daveboyle
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by daveboyle »

Good morning,

I appreciate the time. Not rush as I am reading through the additional step by step tuning guide and am learning more about the absolute pressure table. Hondata has done a fantastic job of presenting the information but even put in layman's terms the concepts of limits and pressure ratios are still new in comparison to the old way of tuning to A/Fs with an electronic boost gauge and then adding timing until you saw knock and backing off by a degree :)

Have good day

Thanks
Dave
Attachments
540nm 2.fpdl
second run
(29.07 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
540nm 1.fpdl
first run
(15.86 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
93 PRL Everything Full Power All Gears Hard Launch 540nm and 250AirC.fpcal
calibration
(19.46 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
daveboyle
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by daveboyle »

Looking further into the tables after reading more:

I raise my torque table limits but if timing isn't advanced and the turbo max ratio tables and air charge limit are not touched the demand will not be met.

QUESTION /STATEMENT 1 : I can understand the 'air charge limit' because that's a percentage of total cylinder filling. Considering this is absolute pressure the cylinder take 14.5psi / 1 bar then at 230% filling of the cylinder will be 130% of additional air or, my interpretation, 1.3bar / 18.85 psi. Am I correct?

QUESTION / STATEMENT 2 : I think I understand 'turbo max ratio (temp)'. As the temperature in IAT2 (basically the outside temperature coming into the air box) increases and the RPM increases the absolute pressure (as I understand it above) will be limited more and more. What I don't understand is why the values are so high: at 90 degrees F at 7000 rpm the limit for cylinder pressure is 2.23 of absolute pressure or 1.23bar/17.8psi. Is my understanding correct?

QUESTION / STATEMENT 3 : If I am understanding thus far then the 'turbo max ratio (PA)' should be easier. Depending on how far you are from sea level the PA will change. Depending on the pressure measured in the engine (ranging from 0.7 up to 1.0) and what rpm you are at there are limits for the over all cylinder pressure. At 0.9 PA and 6500rpm the value 3.47 means 1 bar of pressure in the cylinder and 2.47 additional bar of pressure?

Timing is easy to understand but the above are the key to unlocking the bigger picture for me.
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Hondata
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by Hondata »

Stop. The turbo is over speeding.

This is a hardware problem. I've seen this from intercooler installs where the O rings gets pinched, but it could be anywhere on the pressure side of the intake. Or it could be on the suction side if there is a restriction. I've seen intakes that use rubber hoses get sucked down under high flow.

Do not get into boost on the engine until this is fixed.
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daveboyle
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by daveboyle »

Thanks for taking a look.

I see that the WGCMD is now staying at 0mm the whole time. Not good.

So I will check my intake, IC connection and lines and connections to the turbo, IC connection and lines and connections to the throttle body. Weird thing is the only thing i changed from when the car operated properly last fall was install a downpipe.

Are there vacuum lines that could affect this?
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Spunkster
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by Spunkster »

It could be from anything. You will have to check for leaks and fix whatever it is leaking.
daveboyle
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by daveboyle »

So I figure out the issue.

Pics attached.

After resolving this the base 93 Octane PRL everything improved throttle worked great until I got a P101 P103 error. It is -5 and I did get to 23psi. The only other issue is that my fuel pump was at 100% for part of the pull through 3rd so I will have to lean out the car or reduce boost a bit.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and advice.

learning lots
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thumbnail_20210119_155642.jpg (209.05 KiB) Viewed 174 times
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thumbnail_20210119_154943.jpg (248.44 KiB) Viewed 174 times
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Re: First Time Tuning. Putting my flame suit on.

Post by Hondata »

Thanks for the update. If you have more questions please post a datalog.
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