Hondata Sueing Dave Blundell?

blundar · Post by **blundar** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:30 pm

Hondata wrote:People, as stated previously, posts which are abusive, hateful, insulting, or are just advancing you own justification for copying our software will be moderated.

What does removing something that you don't agree with accomplish? I'd kind of worry about the "audience" if they could not differentiate the asshats from those expressing a more legitimate opinion/argument - the irrationally hateful idiots posting in support of BOTH sides elsewhere are incredibly entertaining!

In any case, *cheers* to rationality! We sure as hell could use more of it...

Post by **Hondata** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:46 pm

I'll bite. You're distorting facts.

1. Posts are removed because they are hateful, not because we disagree with them as you state.

2. I've only seen those type of posts which are anti-Hondata, since you stired them up by promoting this as a Hondata vs free software issue.

3. This has nothing to do with with free software, it is about our property being copied. Don't make it into anything else.

I'm not sure we both exist in the same reality.

cardinal811 · Post by **cardinal811** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:37 am

I'm sure you do........but one is being ANAL about it and one is trying to clear the name that was frownly put upon him over some K series download that he had nothin to do with other than doing his best to erase the post.

Hondata please drop the issue/suit

I'm not sure if I'm going to do anymore hondata installs and start doing other brands.

Dont get me wrong I love your systems but if no one wants to deal with the installs/ tuning what will be the purpose of buying a hondata system.

In Louisville KY Autolab and Automotion are already refusing to tune Hondata any system. I disagree with them. But they are looking foward to the new AEM piggyback thats coming out. I already put a DP on one since they wont tune or mess with my car anymore. Is this a trend thats going around or is it just me from the Dyno shops. They create a good image and sell your or did sell your products based on the reliability of it but if it's went this far and already got on the 502 site I seriously doubt anyone in this ARea of Indiana/Illionoise/Ohio/ and Kentuck will buy the K or S300 system cause everyone is refusing the software. Hondata will be a back up only after I recieve it in 3-4 weeks after the release

Not my choice but if no will deal with it what route do I have to choose?

blundar · Post by **blundar** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:43 am

Hondata wrote:I'll bite. You're distorting facts...

Doug, I'll respectfully disagree with you on #1 and #2, and say that there is considerable room for legal interpretation of #3. We can bicker about this but it isn't going to help either of us.

We are at a crossroads. I am going to be giving you a call in the office or on your cellphone Monday - I didn't want to bother you with this while you were at SEMA. Hopefully, we will be able to have a more productive conversation after you've read this post. I never wanted this matter to escalate to this point. It's not too late for us to work this out without the lawyers being the only ones that win.

There are only 3 possible outcomes possible at this point:

1. You and I work out some arrangement that includes dropping the lawsuit. You are able to get something you want within my power to provide, gaining the additional protection for your company you claim to be looking for. We both are able to avoid spending money, time and worry on a lawsuit. We both end up looking like better people to the community for being able to reach a reasonable agreement. Net result: lawyers starve, everyone else wins.

2. You win the current action against me. You get a judgment against me for some random figure far in excess of my assets. I really have very few assets - just a ton of debt. Figure that I probably would dispose of everything I could liquidate to pay my attorney fees before going down. What's left MIGHT pay your attorney fees and court costs. MAYBE. PGMFI continues and you still aren't a moderator - that's not something a judgment against me can award you. I become a martyr of sorts to the DIY community, and hostility towards your company increases. You lose sales, more people try to attack your products in the future out of spite. Net result: lawyers eat, everyone else loses.

3. I successfully defend your lawsuit. You lose whatever money you paid to your lawyers. You lose a lot of face in the community for the action against me. I get to waste a lot of money on lawyers to defend myself against something that should have been resolved without their involvement. We both get to waste a lot of time and energy on something that had no positive impact on ourselves or our community. Net result: lawyers eat, everyone else loses.

Think on things between now and when we talk if you're serious about finding a solution where we both can win. I will be in touch. I know that you are a reasonable man at heart, and I still have hope.

respectfully,
-Dave

nominous · Post by **nominous** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:03 am

Hondata wrote:I'll bite. You're distorting facts.

1. Posts are removed because they are hateful, not because we disagree with them as you state.

No doubt you will delete this one once again, but as I had previously posted up in response to what you'd said:

Hondata wrote:You cannot disclaim out of your responsibilites.

Read the register form every user is presented with when they sign up to this ie: your, forum. It specifically states that you are not to be held responsible for anything hosted on here.

In no way is that hateful. Yet you deleted it.
I specifically levelled accusations at you in a different post which you unsurprisingly also removed instead of answering, but which was of course your choice.

However, the two posts were unconnected in any other way than being posted by me. Yet you deleted both of them.

Why exactly did you do that when the first didn't accuse you of any wrong doing?

Post by **Hondata** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:40 am

David, please get some quality legal advice so that you can see what your position is and what your options are, because you are still not being realistic.

Have we not negotiated before? You did not honor the verbal agreement from SEMA last year, so what will be different this time?

This is not about 'losing face'; this is about us protecting our property from being stolen. This is not some internet argument amongst 14 year olds - this is our company and livelihood under threat.

Despite your claims, your actions since last year show that you're happy to continue with an anti-Hondata smear campaign. I also see veiled threats from you concerning hostility towards Hondata and the people to hacking our systems. What possible conclusion can be drawn from this apart from that you want to harm Hondata?

At the moment your train is speeding towards the abyss and you are busy dismantling the brakes.

DipDip · Post by **DipDip** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:50 am

Doug, two small simple questions:

Why you do not attack the author of the small software present a short time on PGMFI?
Why you do not attack the author of Crome ? Crome is not a copy of Smanager?

Didier Pelegri.

blundar · Post by **blundar** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:22 pm

Hondata wrote:I also see veiled threats from you concerning hostility towards Hondata and the people to hacking our systems. What possible conclusion can be drawn from this apart from that you want to harm Hondata?

For you to even suggest that was a threat shows that you missed my point entirely. In the interests of not fanning the flames further, I'm going to elaborate on this over email.

cardinal811 · Post by **cardinal811** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:35 am

Hondata you are seriously thinking that 14yr olds are buying your software and are driving around with your software and other alike. And that these 14 yr olds are concerned with whats going on with Hondata and DAVE. So you just pretty much smacked everyone thats into cars and loves the software lil brats" THE ONES THAT BUY YOUR PRODUCTS " come on now who is being the lil brat now? Sounds to me that your having a bad day and that your attacking the ones that keep you in business.

Why you got to be so mean :?

14yr olds "LOST CUSTOMER HERE"

blundar · Post by **blundar** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:40 pm

Hondata wrote:At the moment your train is speeding towards the abyss and you are busy dismantling the brakes.

At this point, I'm very sad and disappointed. I would have hoped to at least be able to have a conversation in which you clearly stated what you were looking for from me. If you change your mind and would like to speak without relying on your attorney, the door is still open and you have my number. I still hope for an amicable agreement to end this matter, and I can only hope that you do as well.
-Dave

Post by **Hondata** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:06 pm

David, at this point the discussion must be conducted through our council. We hope that an agreement can be reached too.

rsmith2786 · Post by **rsmith2786** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:00 pm

I am really surprised to see this. I can only hope for your sake that you make more from this lawsuit than you have lost in sales. I highly doubt that will happen. I am about ready to upgrade from my S200 but at this point would rather buy an AEM instead of the S300.

Furthermore, i am confused by the fact that your software contains intellectual property of Honda or their supplier but yet are selling and profiting from something that that was not entirely developed by Hondata Inc. Your comparison to changing the wheels doesn't really make sense. It would be more like if i took Honda's design for a wheel and made a slight modification to it and then sold it as my own, for profit. I doubt anyone at American Honda Motor Co,. Inc. would have any interest in the limited usage of their intellectual property but i think it is only fair to forward this information to their legal department.

DipDip · Post by **DipDip** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:35 pm

rsmith2786 wrote:I can only hope for your sake that you make more from this lawsuit than you have lost in sales. I highly doubt that will happen.

If it win, what is not to guarantee. :)

Post by **Hondata** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:34 pm

rsmith2786: We have rights to our code in the ECU. Even if a derrived work then it still has protection under the law. This is not about gaining money from the lawsuit, this is about protecting our property, especially when David indicated it may happen again.

cardinal811: I can't understand the part about 14 year olds (the original post was a reference to the seriousness of the situation), but why can we not defend the rights our property?

If you had spent years of your life developing something, and someone was helping people steal it, would you try to stop it? Or do you want our code to be stolen?

rsmith2786 · Post by **rsmith2786** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:41 pm

Hondata wrote:rsmith2786: We have rights to our code in the ECU. Even if a derrived work then it still has protection under the law. This is not about gaining money from the lawsuit, this is about protecting our property, especially when David indicated it may happen again.

cardinal811: I can't understand the part about 14 year olds (the original post was a reference to the seriousness of the situation), but why can we not defend the rights our property?

If you had spent years of your life developing something, and someone was helping people steal it, would you try to stop it? Or do you want our code to be stolen?

For arguments sake wouldn't Honda be protected by similar rights? Protection of their property.

I agree that there is a problem and you have the right to protect your software but it doesn't seem like you are going after the right person. The person who hosted the software violated the terms and conditions of www.pgmfi.org. Dave didn't post the software.