Cranny can you please check datalog

K-Series Programmable ECU Calibration updates / downloads
Slip_Angle
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:26 pm

Post by Slip_Angle » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:04 pm

T13R wrote: First off Cranny, are you able to elaborate on why the initial tune isn't good? Is it because part throttle and wot on the low cam aren't good? Is the AFR way off on the high cam, or fuel curves are too spiky and not smooth enough? Maybe because of the knocks generated or the cam angles look all over the place?

I know that for the RSX a 13.5:1 AFR is the best for power. Does this hold true for the K24 also? I've been looking over the logs and from the VTEC switchover on the initial tune until lifting off at high rpms, the AFR averages out to about 13.0:1. I've also been loading up the runs with Raz Dyno and Theta Dyno and so far the initial tune still seems to be the most powerful out of all the logs taken so far, but of course I know that this is a work in progress.

I know the low cam maps are running way too rich at part throttle and wot at the moment, but that also wasn't tuned yet. I've also noticed that all the logs seem to show rich AFRs almost everywhere on the low cam at part throttle and wot. I was there when the guy did the tune for my brother and I know he worked only on the high cam at wot. Also the guy's reason to add 2% fuel trim to cylinders 2 and 3 is that according to his experiences with the K24 (other projects), those cylinders seem to run hotter. I don't have any proof of that however.

I'd also like to give a clear breakdown of what is installed on the car:

- Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
- Modified stock air box with K&N filter
- Free flow catalytic converter
- '06 TSX Throttle Body
- '06 TSX cams
- 45 Degrees VTC
- Headers and exhaust are stock (the filename of the tune is misleading)

@Slip_Angle, thanks for the explanation on the multiplexer. Also, the reason why the log was stopped at 5700 rpm is because he ran out of road and didn't get a chance at another run. As for the TPS settings, they are identical to what you have, 1% no throttle and 102% full throttle.

I appreciate everyones help and look forward to being educated a little bit more on tuning with KPro.
If the calibration you are using is the original k24a2 then it's not great. The newer one's are superior. A/F is way off in closed loop and cam angles are for a stock car.

Your brother's engine setup with regards to exhaust and such are similar to mine so they should work well with my calibration, which I have been working on getting just right for months. Cranny knows what he's doing but since my calibration is 95% there for you already I encourage you to use it.. Feedback is always welcome too.

An A/F of 12.8 - 13.0 apparently ideal for k series motors including the k24. I tune for 13.0. I also agree with adding 2% fuel for cylinders 2 and 3. I have measured mine and they do run hotter than 1 and 4.

The bucking your brother describes with my calibration should be simple to resolve, so if you like we can work that out.

Slip_Angle
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:26 pm

Post by Slip_Angle » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:16 pm

keto06 wrote:I used the Razdyno program and compensated for the weight of the TSX and the gear ratios and then graphed it and although the numbers are prolly off, the one thing that showed was the torque drop off is pretty serious from around 4100 and after. I dont know what to tell you but it seems like it might like different cam angles or something....You prolly need something closer to the 04-05 TSX Stock kal that comes with Hondata.

I recommend trying to fix the problems with Slip_Angles map if he has done Theta Dyno work on it. I use theta dyno a lot on my RSX. Keep posting datalogs and I will help graph them and try and help you out if you want me too.
On the K24a2, 4000 - 4200 is about where you need to switch to the high cam with the setup Remus and I run. Torque peaks at 4100 for me and then takes a massive dive right after.

I'd like to see you plug my calibration into razdyno and compare to the other calibrations... Should be interesting.

My car is an EP3 - 2750 lbs, and 5 speed. - gearing is in kpro.

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Post by keto06 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:57 pm

I must have missed where it said 06 TSX cams where installed. I have a good map I made for an 06 TSX so maybe you can try that one.

The only problem is I think this motor was in an RSX, so you will need to copy and paste the maps into a TSX map or just copy the highcam tables into SlipAngles map. The low cam looks pretty good to me.
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Edmod2.kal
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cranny
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Post by cranny » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:39 pm

T13R wrote:Hi, I'm Remus's brother. I've been doing a lot of research lately to help him out with his tune looking at materials from Hondata and others as well. I've got a few questions to clarify some things that I'm unsure of.

First off Cranny, are you able to elaborate on why the initial tune isn't good? Is it because part throttle and wot on the low cam aren't good? Is the AFR way off on the high cam, or fuel curves are too spiky and not smooth enough? Maybe because of the knocks generated or the cam angles look all over the place?

simply put anything that is not touched on or within where its supposed to be , should be.

I know that for the RSX a 13.5:1 AFR is the best for power. Does this hold true for the K24 also? I've been looking over the logs and from the VTEC switchover on the initial tune until lifting off at high rpms, the AFR averages out to about 13.0:1. I've also been loading up the runs with Raz Dyno and Theta Dyno and so far the initial tune still seems to be the most powerful out of all the logs taken so far, but of course I know that this is a work in progress.

the K series engines imo , seem to like the high 12's 13:0 range. i dont know anything about Raz or theta so i cant comment. personally i think its a waste of time. either go to a real dyno , or street tune it till it feels as strong as you can get it. i go by the person that owns the cars feedback. noone knows the car or changes in it like that person.

I know the low cam maps are running way too rich at part throttle and wot at the moment, but that also wasn't tuned yet. I've also noticed that all the logs seem to show rich AFRs almost everywhere on the low cam at part throttle and wot. I was there when the guy did the tune for my brother and I know he worked only on the high cam at wot. Also the guy's reason to add 2% fuel trim to cylinders 2 and 3 is that according to his experiences with the K24 (other projects), those cylinders seem to run hotter. I don't have any proof of that however.

that could very well be ive never measured. ive never read about( i do alot of)or had any experiences with this phenomena so.

I'd also like to give a clear breakdown of what is installed on the car:

- Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
- Modified stock air box with K&N filter
- Free flow catalytic converter
- '06 TSX Throttle Body
- '06 TSX cams
- 45 Degrees VTC
- Headers and exhaust are stock (the filename of the tune is misleading)

@Slip_Angle, thanks for the explanation on the multiplexer. Also, the reason why the log was stopped at 5700 rpm is because he ran out of road and didn't get a chance at another run. As for the TPS settings, they are identical to what you have, 1% no throttle and 102% full throttle.

I appreciate everyones help and look forward to being educated a little bit more on tuning with KPro.

cranny
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Post by cranny » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:40 pm

here is another update remus if your interested. cam angles adjusted again. you need to better relay how the car feels man.
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remus
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: MONTREAL

Snow in Montreal

Post by remus » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:47 pm

Cranny, I will try it as soon as possible.We received 15 inches in only two days. Slip_angle how can I copy all you part throttle tables without re writing every single number? What can we do to remove the jerkiness of the car?

Thanks to all of you guys.

Also added a latest run of my original set up
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keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Post by keto06 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:11 pm

Open the two kals so you can switch back and forth using the "Re-open" function.

CTRL+A to highlight the entire table.

When you switch between maps, it keeps it in the same cam angle so you don't have to worry about that.

Slip_Angle
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Snow in Montreal

Post by Slip_Angle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:07 pm

remus wrote:Cranny, I will try it as soon as possible.We received 15 inches in only two days. Slip_angle how can I copy all you part throttle tables without re writing every single number? What can we do to remove the jerkiness of the car?

Thanks to all of you guys.

Also added a latest run of my original set up
To fix the jerkiness/bucking there are a few things you can try.

1. Re-Scale your TPS. (When kpro is plugged into the car, goto Parameters, TPS, click "minimum reading" - read without touching the throttle. Press the throttle all the way and click on read for "maximum reading".

2. Try disabling fuel overrun cutoff delay. (parameters/closed loop)

3. Change all of the values in fuel overrun cutoff (parameters/advanced) to a lower value - 10 for all of them may work.

Copying my part throttle tables into another tune isn't ideal because mine are mostly for the 20 cam where the tune cranny is working on is mostly the 10 cam. They probably won't be way off so it may be better than what you have now. Just select the 20 cam tables using your mouse from columns 1-7 and CTRL C them to your other tune.

What did you think of my calibration other than the bucking issue (my car doesn't do this BTW)

Locked