IAT ignition comp not working

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
soxfan143
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IAT ignition comp not working

Post by soxfan143 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:31 am

Hello Hondata. Yesterday I Noticed my knock count was registering knocks for the first time in a while. Now the ambient temps have been low for the past week or so, so I wasn't in need of the IAT ignition comp tables. But yesterday the weather got hot again and I noticed that my IAT comp values were not being reflected in the log graph. Now this morning I activated live tuning and pulled 2 degrees ignition across the board on the low flow and 2 degrees minimum from the high flow. In the attached log from the beginning to about 17 minutes the IAT was 0 in the low flow and on he high flow the values were at 0 degrees retard at 86 degrees, 4 degrees retard at 125 degrees and 9 at 176, 10 at 212 and 10 at 276 but the ignition is not retarding. It's causing knocks when the IATs climb. The first log is from this morning and the second log is from yesterday when I first noticed this. The log from yesterday is the one titled IAT comp broken and V67 is the cal that was used. Thanks guys.
Last edited by soxfan143 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Spunkster
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Post by Spunkster » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:11 pm

Post 1 datalog showing the problem and the calibration used and right click in the datalog and mark the spots with notes showing the problem areas.

soxfan143
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Post by soxfan143 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:40 pm

Here you go. IAT comp is not pulling ANY ignition. In the second pull in that log that is marked at the end of 5th gear the IAT should have pulled 3 degrees at 125*F. Didn't pull any ignition. It's happening with every car I've tuned with this beta version. I'm worried about the 5-6 cars I've tuned since the update. And also my own car. Thanks Spunkster.
Attachments
IAT nonsense.fpdl
(4.19 MiB) Downloaded 212 times
soxfan FR GT30R V67.fpcal
(19.98 KiB) Downloaded 216 times

civicRSA
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Post by civicRSA » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:08 am

Hondata my car is one of them that Soxfan143 has tuned and it is also having the same issue. On a hot day I will get knocks because of no ign. retard.

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Post by Spunkster » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:54 am

Derek is away until next week. I will have him take a look at this when he returns.

soxfan143
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Post by soxfan143 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:04 pm

Cool. Thanks Spunkster. I'm not crazy right though? It isn't working right?

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Post by civicRSA » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:22 am

Here is another log for you to look at with the IAT compensation not working.
Attachments
CivicRSA FR GT3076 FN2 V16.fpcal
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Datalog CivicRSA FR v16.fpdl
(2.27 MiB) Downloaded 201 times

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Post by Hondata » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:43 am

It appears that Honda has implemented the IAT ignition retard so that it is applied to the knock limit timing but not the MBT timing. You need to set the knock ignition limit close to the actual ignition timing (esp under boost) for the retard to work.
Hondata

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Post by civicRSA » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:23 am

So you mean that the values in the knock limit tables need to be the same as the values in the MBT tables?

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Post by mucter » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:35 am

Hondata wrote:It appears that Honda has implemented the IAT ignition retard so that it is applied to the knock limit timing but not the MBT timing. You need to set the knock ignition limit close to the actual ignition timing (esp under boost) for the retard to work.
So what you're saying is that all of the compensation based retard tables in the ECU are treated the same as the knock retard tables? If the sum of the retard spec'd by all of the tables exceeds the knock ignition limit, retard is applied? Or is this a pick and choose thing? Some retard tables are affected and some aren't?

I think at this point, we need a solid answer on which tables in the ECU are affected by the knock ignition limit and which are not.

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Post by civicRSA » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:09 pm

Well if you look at the calibration that I posted above. The knock ignition values are very close to the actual ignition values. They are only positive by 1 or 2 degrees.
So why does the retard not work then?

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Post by mucter » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:24 pm

civicRSA wrote:Well if you look at the calibration that I posted above. The knock ignition values are very close to the actual ignition values. They are only positive by 1 or 2 degrees.
So why does the retard not work then?
Because the knock ignition limit table values don't correlate to the values in the actual MBT ignition tables in any way shape or form.

They are setting a threshold for how much specified retard can be ignored in a particular rpm/load before retard will be applied. The difference between the knock ignition limit value and the sum of all specified retard (either from comp tables or knock retard tables) is what you will get for retard on compensation.

That's an over simplification of the process, but I think the reason people are struggling so much with the knock logic in 1.1.6.2 is because they are thinking the knock ignition limit table values are related to the values in the MBT tables, and they're not, at least not directly.

When Hondata says you need to set the knock ignition limit close to the MBT value, that means you need to set the knock ignition limit to like 0 or 1. This will cause the ECU to actively retard the timing if you have a compensation that tells it to.

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Post by civicRSA » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:01 am

Hers is my latest calibration and datalog. Note that IAT and ECT ignition compensation is not working. What you have suggested has been done.

Please can you explain why the compensation tables do not effect actual MBT table values?
Attachments
CivicRSA FR GT3076 FN2 V17.fpcal
(17.42 KiB) Downloaded 184 times
Datalog CivicRSA FR v17.fpdl
(2 MiB) Downloaded 201 times

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Post by Hondata » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:49 am

Tested your calibration and the IAT compensation is working. If you still think the compensation is not working, give me the specific test you are using, the expected results and the results that you are getting.
Hondata

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Post by soxfan143 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:51 pm

Shouldn't he have more than 1 degree retard at 104 degrees IAT? I have it pulling 5 degrees at 131 F and it starts interpolating at 86 F. So by 104 it should be pulling at least 2 degrees ignition. Right? Or am I missing something? The ignition value in the log graph should be ~9 degrees by 105*F. At 9 minutes 4 seconds of his log the ignition is runnign 10* advance at 109*F IAT. It should be running 9* ignition at that point.

Also I think the degree you're seeing being pulled is the gear based ignition comp. It's pulling a half degree in 5th and 6th. Something isn't right.

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