First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Setup:
JRSC Aftercooled K24A2 RSX
Stock fuel system except for DW 800cc injectors
Problem:
At first crank after the car has been sitting I am having issues cranking the car, taking 3-5 seconds to crank. As soon as the car cranks I can turn it off, without having changed anything, and crank it up and it will start right away without hesitation. I have tried both the supplied, and Hondata's dead times and neither helps that startup. I have contacted Deatschwerks and they suggest it's the tune. I have tried adjusting dead times and base cranking pulse times and it doesn't help. I have searched, and read, and tried, and I have gotten no where. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated, especially since I can't be the only running these injectors.
No issues outside of that first crank.
JRSC Aftercooled K24A2 RSX
Stock fuel system except for DW 800cc injectors
Problem:
At first crank after the car has been sitting I am having issues cranking the car, taking 3-5 seconds to crank. As soon as the car cranks I can turn it off, without having changed anything, and crank it up and it will start right away without hesitation. I have tried both the supplied, and Hondata's dead times and neither helps that startup. I have contacted Deatschwerks and they suggest it's the tune. I have tried adjusting dead times and base cranking pulse times and it doesn't help. I have searched, and read, and tried, and I have gotten no where. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated, especially since I can't be the only running these injectors.
No issues outside of that first crank.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Assuming nothing else is wrong: Use our DW 800 dead times (they should be around 1.2ms @ 14V). Reset the cranking fuel trim to 0%. Test. If it struggles to start, increase the cranking fuel trim 10% at a time. If it starts and bogs, or floods before starting, decrease the cranking fuel trim 10% at a time. Between each test run the engine for a minute to clear out the fuel.
Hondata
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
This is the exact type of response I was hoping to get. I really appreciate it and will go try it!Hondata wrote:Assuming nothing else is wrong: Use our DW 800 dead times (they should be around 1.2ms @ 14V). Reset the cranking fuel trim to 0%. Test. If it struggles to start, increase the cranking fuel trim 10% at a time. If it starts and bogs, or floods before starting, decrease the cranking fuel trim 10% at a time. Between each test run the engine for a minute to clear out the fuel.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Hondata,
I have been trying what you suggested, adding and removing 10% at a time to upwards of 60% and I am not noticing any improvements. As I have been doing this I have noticed that in the mornings after the car has sat all night, ECT around 70-77 degrees, the engine starts up without much trouble at all. It is able to do this regardless of my cranking fuel trim changes. During the day when it is warmer and I try to start up the car after it's been sitting, ECT round 120-140, and it will try to crank for 3-5 seconds.
Also, in the mornings when it cranks right away as soon as it starts it will bog a little and recover. So according to your description it is too much fuel.
During the day when it really struggles to start, when it eventually does it does not bog nor does it crank right to 1000rpm. It slowly just starts up. Still too little fuel I assume? Not sure...
Any help would be great at this point.
I have been trying what you suggested, adding and removing 10% at a time to upwards of 60% and I am not noticing any improvements. As I have been doing this I have noticed that in the mornings after the car has sat all night, ECT around 70-77 degrees, the engine starts up without much trouble at all. It is able to do this regardless of my cranking fuel trim changes. During the day when it is warmer and I try to start up the car after it's been sitting, ECT round 120-140, and it will try to crank for 3-5 seconds.
Also, in the mornings when it cranks right away as soon as it starts it will bog a little and recover. So according to your description it is too much fuel.
During the day when it really struggles to start, when it eventually does it does not bog nor does it crank right to 1000rpm. It slowly just starts up. Still too little fuel I assume? Not sure...
Any help would be great at this point.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Probably too much fuel. In the past people with the same symptoms as you have also found leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragms and/or leaky injectors.
Hondata
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Hmmm, ok. I may get in contact with Deatschwerks again then as these were brand new injectors and still under warranty. When you guys were testing the range of DW injectors did any of them have this problem? Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a characteristic of an 800cc injector.Hondata wrote:Probably too much fuel. In the past people with the same symptoms as you have also found leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragms and/or leaky injectors.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
How do I diagnose leaky injectors?Hondata wrote:Probably too much fuel. In the past people with the same symptoms as you have also found leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragms and/or leaky injectors.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
What have you done to the fuel pump?
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Hey Spunkster,Spunkster wrote:What have you done to the fuel pump?
Nothing has been done to fuel pump. Everything in the fuel system is stock except for injectors. Stock injectors and startup were fine before I swapped them out.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Try plugging the holes in the manifold that are right above the ports. This is there for emissions purposes and could be interfering.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
disregard.
Last edited by tiger on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
awesome man... i have an ID725cc, and i had an issue when warm start always failed from 2nd attempt, but in the morning it always started in a sec.
I have an 2004 TSX.. i have changed a fuel rail to a skunk2... Tell me, if i understand you correctly the issue was that the fuel line on the rail had a step?
This is correct ?
Can you please check how it will start in the morning after night and report solved this the issue or not...
If the issue will be solved, than it means that upgrade of the fuel pump is what we must think of.
But i can not understand were the pressure could go if the fuel line is a hermetically sealed line. And when you turn the ignition the fuel pump adds the pressure.. it seems that it lacks pressure ?
I have an 2004 TSX.. i have changed a fuel rail to a skunk2... Tell me, if i understand you correctly the issue was that the fuel line on the rail had a step?
This is correct ?
Can you please check how it will start in the morning after night and report solved this the issue or not...
If the issue will be solved, than it means that upgrade of the fuel pump is what we must think of.
But i can not understand were the pressure could go if the fuel line is a hermetically sealed line. And when you turn the ignition the fuel pump adds the pressure.. it seems that it lacks pressure ?
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Disregard.Bard wrote:awesome man... i have an ID725cc, and i had an issue when warm start always failed from 2nd attempt, but in the morning it always started in a sec.
I have an 2004 TSX.. i have changed a fuel rail to a skunk2... Tell me, if i understand you correctly the issue was that the fuel line on the rail had a step?
This is correct ?
Can you please check how it will start in the morning after night and report solved this the issue or not...
If the issue will be solved, than it means that upgrade of the fuel pump is what we must think of.
But i can not understand were the pressure could go if the fuel line is a hermetically sealed line. And when you turn the ignition the fuel pump adds the pressure.. it seems that it lacks pressure ?
Last edited by tiger on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
I`ll return from my shift in a few day`s and will check if it solves my issue... i really hope it helps!
Re: First start problems with Deatschwerks 800cc
Sounds good man, I hope it helps as well.Bard wrote:I`ll return from my shift in a few day`s and will check if it solves my issue... i really hope it helps!