Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

2007-2008 Fit
Post Reply
FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:16 am

When making adjustments to spark/lambda on the GD3, are we to use the "Low" or "High" tables to affect open loop/WOT operation?

Image

While data is streaming, and I am sitting at idle to examine logs attempts to view the Ign-High table are overridden and it takes me back to the Low table. I don't have a passenger in the car when tuning, so I cannot check that this is the case while under way and whether the High table is being used.

Additionally, how can we scale the tables to allow for tuning at greater than 7000rpm operation for those of us who will be switching to a larger cam/turbo?

Is there a limit to maximum rpm in the software or ECU?

Note: The spring/retainer will be more than adequate for this, as it is being used to take advantage of a the massflow of a large compressor/turbine combo at high boost so please do not opine on what is too much for the valvetrain to handle and/or why would I need greater than 7k rpm. :)

This is merely a question about how to tune for beyond 7k and where the limit exists if there is one.

As it stands, I watch the graph on a sweep through 7k I see AFRs dive into the 11s. I am trying to determine if this is a default mode of the ECU for margin of safety purposes or if this is purely because airflow is falling off so fast on the stock cam.

User avatar
Spunkster
Site Admin
Posts: 17658
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Hondata
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Spunkster » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:25 pm

If you are datalogging you will not be able to adjust the High cam maps if you are running on the low cam maps unless you uncheck the "tables follow vtec" in the options menu.

You will have to re-index the the tables to rescale them for higher RPM values.
http://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/ta ... tsub=index
http://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/ch ... ndexes.htm

You must make the changes to whichever cam profile it is runnign on in the area the change must be made.

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:35 am

Ok, that is sort of what I figured and why I only modified the Ign-High Map above 4k

And to confirm the Fuel High Map is only going to effect closed loop operation in those areas on the High speed cam, and the WOT Lambda High is purely WOT/Open loop?

I had initially tried to left-click on the index, just before I had made the post with no success. The three options were all grey-ed out.

Tried again last night with no issue, definitely user error.

I was previously not aware of the "tables follow VTEC" box, thank you!

User avatar
Spunkster
Site Admin
Posts: 17658
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Hondata
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Spunkster » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:45 pm

The fuel maps are used for both open and closed loop.

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Ok. If the Fuel Hi/Lo is in use for open and closed loop, does that mean WOT Lambda Adj Hi/Lo is presumably then just for TPS = 100% or similar?

The Fuel Value is unit-less is looks like on the Hi/Lo tables, and from what I'm reading even changes in injector size do not alter these values. Instead the injector scaling is altering trims in the background.

Would the only purpose to altering the Fuel Hi/Lo tables be to further fine tune actual AFR in line with target AFR/Lambda as specified in the WOT Lambda Adj Maps? Am I overthinking this? (Or under? lol)

So then following that basic example, if you personally were the one tuning a GD3.. lets say a boosted application, and you have enabled the boosted load ranges would your main fueling changes be made on the WOT Lambda table then further tweaking is done on the Fuel tables?

User avatar
Spunkster
Site Admin
Posts: 17658
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Hondata
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Spunkster » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:30 pm

There are no units on the fuel tables, and that is where you should be making your adjsutments. You really shouldn't have to touch the WOT lamda tables unless you are trying to run much richer than the tables are already set to. Your tuning should be done to the actual Fuel tables.

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Yes towards 6600rpm and afterwards AFR dives rich (into the 11s) even though WOT Lambda is targeting 12.5:! and I have the fuel tables tapering off at that point - torque curve suggests VE is falling off pretty fast up there.

As far as adjusting the load v rpm indices, the options remain grey-ed out. The laptop is not connected to the ECU and I am attempting to modify it inside of an existing .cal file.

What am I doing wrong?
Attachments
index-issues1.jpg
index-issues1.jpg (294.22 KiB) Viewed 12352 times

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8632
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Hondata » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:08 am

Some indexes are shared between multiple tables and cannot be changed.
Hondata

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:56 pm

Hondata wrote:Some indexes are shared between multiple tables and cannot be changed.
So, perhaps I am misunderstanding.. but is this to suggest that while we can set the redline to whatever we like, we are not able to rescale the tables to tune beyond the stock redline in the event we opt for significant VE mods that require the ability to wind out higher?

Or is there another way to do this?

Say I pick up a very large cam, fabricate manifolds tuned for this cam to make power from 6500-10500, tool steel rodbolts, thicker wristpins, valvesprings to accomodate, etc. Am I really limited by these shared indexes that don't allow scaling beyond 6600rpm and all that is now useless?

Why allow for the ability to change the redline, and then not include the ability to tune for it?

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:57 pm

Anyone?

Is there another set of tables I should be using to affect changes to spark/fueling above 6600rpm?

User avatar
Spunkster
Site Admin
Posts: 17658
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Hondata
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Spunkster » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:29 pm

You should be adjusting the fuel and ignitinon tables which you can reindex. Those are the tables that are used to run the engine.

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8632
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by Hondata » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:18 am

Actually, the fuel & ignition indexes currently cannot be changed. We will see if we change this before the next release.
Hondata

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:06 am

Hondata wrote:Actually, the fuel & ignition indexes currently cannot be changed. We will see if we change this before the next release.
So I'm not crazy! haha

Was going to say "but we tried that.."

Is there an upper limit to what those tables could be indexed to inherent to something in the ECUs design/programming?

I'm not just asking so I can say "I can rev to xxxxx rpm" as some sort of internet dick-waving contest. Just want to tune for whatever we come up with.

Used to running AEM and ECMLink on my other cars, and I am a bit spoiled by that.

FootInMouthDisease
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Tuning Spark Angle/WOT Lambda

Post by FootInMouthDisease » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:27 am

Saw the new update, thank you for addressing this in such short order.

I will be checking it out this weekend.

Post Reply