07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
EFICU
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

I see, so your temps run from below freezing to roughly 86*F. Then yeah, that isn't too warm at all so the tune will compensate pretty well for that. But definitely let me know when it gets that hot so we can datalog and make any changes if necessary to the compensations. I've adjusted the compensations compared to other really cold places I've tuned, but I'm happy to check them for you when it warms up.

Are you doing actual track events, or autocross? There might be some power we can squeeze out of it with more octane, but with the stock cat and all in there it makes it tough. We can certainly try though, then I would recommend datalogging your first track event session and shooting me the datalog before the second run so we can make sure it's all good for you.

If you have time now, we can also work on the cam angle map some to get what we can out of your car. Even though I tuned the entire car for the basemap we started you on, your car might like a different angle here and there. So let me know, it would take about 5-6 revisions to gather the data we need, then blend it out again.
lucastec23
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Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:00 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

Yeah so I only really do an odd track day here and there just for fun but it's currently my daily so I don't want to be pushing it too hard. I just want to be able to drive it hard but without putting any unnecessary stress on it. In the future I may want to put a exhaust system on but nothing too rowdy or raspy.

But thank you, just by reading what things your changing in the tune is teaching me a bit about it and all the parameters. Hopefully one day i'll have a project where I can touch every part of the car.
EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Gotcha. Yeah the tune will actually take a lot of stress off things. Mainly the timing chain and tensioner. With the stock tune, every time you shift the cam angle goes from anywhere between 15-40* of cam rotation, and slams shut to 0* when you let off the gas to shift and then back to 15-40* when you get back on throttle. Imagine that every time you shift the cam slams to 0*, then back to a rotated position. Over time, that puts a lot of stress on the timing chain and tensioner, especially on WOT shifting when you push in the clutch and let of the gas. With our calibrations, the cam rotation stays static throughout the shift instead of slamming to 0* over and over. So say while you're cruising through town the cam is at 20*, when you shift to another gear, the cam rotation will stay at 20* during the shift and not leave that rotation. It also makes things a lot smoother, but taking a lot of stress of the timing chain and tensioner is a nice thing to have.

Not to mention the fuel trims are much closer to target, and the WOT fuel will be dialed. My main thing is optimization, not tricking the ECU into doing something it shouldn't to find power. All of the factory protections are still there just as Honda engineered them and Hondata implemented them for us to have. You can play games with some things in the tune to not record knock and things like that, but I don't mess with that stuff and simply go by the datalogs to guide decisions and feedback.

I'm sure you will get the point of completing a car on your own. The actual tuning portion is very simple, understanding the background settings and how they work is the stuff that takes time to get right. Hondata as a tuning platform makes it very easy, for lack of better term it tells you what to do and how much. There is a reason why Hondata is a staple in the Hondata community for so long now. And now with all the K-swaps going on in so many cars, the market is expanding.
lucastec23
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Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:00 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

Oh that's interesting about the cams I didn't know that. Sorry its been awhile I've been busy. Here's the latest datalog, I did notice a few knocks I believe from shifting from 3rd to 4th on a WOT pull. Also, if I ever decide to remove the cat, do I need to change anything in regards to the secondary O2 sensor?
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EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Yeah all the knock happened in one small area, so I made some adjustments for the knock. It's all part of the process and why we have you drive it different scenarios to find everything we can.

No you won't need to do anything with the o2 sensor. I turn it off in the tune, so you don't need to worry about a defouler or anything. Depending on what setup you go with that removes the cat, you would want to address tune to build a new cam angle map and clean up fuel and ignition. But you can certainly drive it and not have any issues.

Overall it looks great. Your intake temps were twice the temperature of the last datalog, and all the fueling looks good. So it looks like the compensations are working well. But we can always check when it gets warmer.

Take this one for a spin when you can.
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lucastec23
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

That sounds good to me. Also when is the timing tensioner usually recommended to be replaced? I have about 214000km and its a 6 owner car so I'm not sure if its been done already.
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EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Looks great again. We're definitely there on all the fuel stuff, just chasing a knock or two. This time we had one on your fourth gear short pull. I made a small adjustment for it. Take this one for a spin when you can, no rush, see if you can make a fourth gear pull from say 3000-7000 or so that way we can see how it acts on a fourth gear pull. Fourth gear can get you going a little fast if you run it out to redline, so something like 7000-7500 is fine so you don't get going too fast on the street.

I also added my sport pedal map to this one. See if you like the way the throttle feels. It tightens up the relationship between the pedal and throttle body a little bit. If you don't like the way it feels, we can go back to my base pedal map.
lucastec23
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

This was a cold one! The winter hasn't been too kind to my car, I believe the exhaust manifold is cracked and I think one of the idler pulleys is about to go. The pedal tune feels pretty good too, nice and immediate almost feels like drive by cable. Anymore tricks up your sleeve? hahaha
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EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Sheesh, that sucks on the manifold. It's not too hard to change, though it's not much fun under there. Haha.

That's good you like the pedal tune. That is sort of the goal with that pedal tune, tricking your brain into thinking it's a cable throttle body was the goal. I noticed though when I put it in the first file for guys, it was sort of sensory overload with everything, so I wait until the end now. Unfortunately I don't have anymore tricks. Haha.

That datalog looked great. We had one little knock in an area, but you traveled through that area a lot and didn't have more knock. Take that same file for a spin, and make a similar datalog and driving style like you did. I think we might be there. If it does register a knock in that same area again, then I will touch it up. But I think it was a fluke.
lucastec23
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

Hey there,
the tune you set me up with has been perfect through the winter. I've noticed now since its warming up my engine light flashes several times when i'm WOT in 4th gear.
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EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

No problem, yeah the temps weren't too different, but they are different. Did this knock happen during this one tank of gas, or has it been happening for a couple tanks of gas now?
lucastec23
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Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:00 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

It's been happening for a few tanks now, you think it's because of the fuel quality? I usually fill up with 91 from shell.
EFICU
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Gotcha, just trying to ask relevant questions based on experience is all. It's possible to get poor gas from time to time from the best companies, especially with all the BS going on right now. I went in and made some ignition adjustments for you in this one. Test it out with this same tank of gas and let's see if we get some knock or not.
lucastec23
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Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:00 pm

Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by lucastec23 »

This one was perfect, I don't believe I see any knocks in the datalog. Just out of curiosity, did you retard the ignition? and which table did you use? I'm still trying to learn how to use the software.
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EFICU
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Re: 07' FG2, Help Needed with Tune!

Post by EFICU »

Yeah it looks good, no knock. I did remove some ignition yes, mostly in the high cam 30* and 15* tables. Your car is a little sensitive around 6200 to redline, so there is some timing removed in those areas to stop the knock. As your intake temps go up in the coming months, there are temp compensations that will go in and pull more timing for the heat. So you should be fine, but once the temps get really warm, make some datalogs and we can clean up any knock. Basically when the intakes temps are over 86* f, the compensations start to kick in and pull timing. So if you get knock in temps above those now, I would look to pull timing through the compensations, that way you keep the ignition in it when things are cooler. On a really hot day, all you can hope to do is keep the fuel close to target and no knock, you're going to lose power no matter what from the hot air. Nobody is setting hp records and track records when the air is super hot. Unless you have a boosted setup and an ice tank to keep the temps really cold. For an NA k series, nobody is attempting to set record in really hot weather.

But yeah, it looks good for now. Keep datalogging if you want and if you see a knock or something let me know.
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