09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
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akanep16
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:19 am

09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

Hello! I was looking to see if anyone would be willing to help me tune my Si. I’m brand new to this and want to make sure I’m not missing something that could damage my car. So far all I have is hybrid racing intake and resonator delete and I am on the AEM V2 CAI race calibration. Car runs decent but feels like there could be some more power. Thank you!
EFICU
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

akanep16 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:28 am Hello! I was looking to see if anyone would be willing to help me tune my Si. I’m brand new to this and want to make sure I’m not missing something that could damage my car. So far all I have is hybrid racing intake and resonator delete and I am on the AEM V2 CAI race calibration. Car runs decent but feels like there could be some more power. Thank you!
Do you plan on adding any performance mods in the near future, is this your setup for quite a while? The only real way to get the most out of them power wise is to tune each cam angle to get data required for building a cam angle map suited to your car. But let me know you future plans and when you plan to do them, then we can discuss how to move forward if you want some help from me.
akanep16
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:19 am

Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

I would love any help! Thank you. But yes I do plan on headers and maybe exhaust around a month or two out from now. I have data log from todays drive to work about 20 minutes of stop and go and a few pulls with the AEM V2 CAI calibration if you want to see it. I’m not sure what to look at to make sure I’m running safely.
EFICU
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

Yeah the race calibrations are no longer needed, or recommended. They were used back in the day, but are no longer required to get the ECU to do what we want. They also cause your fuel gauge to be a little off and you lose your oil life monitor that tells you when it's time for an oil change. If you want to keep running it until you get all your parts on, we can adjust that calibration. But I would think it's better to transfer you to my stuff and get it dialed for now while you wait for your parts. Then I would recommend going in and doing a complete custom tune once you get the header on. The header is the biggest piece to the puzzle, so that requires the most adjustment to the tune.

Let me know what you think. And go ahead and post the datalog you have so I can see how things are looking.
akanep16
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:19 am

Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

ohhhh ok i see. I can run either one you think is best! Here is my drive from today. Sounds perfect though to get it running now and ill take it in somewhere after my other upgrades.
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akanep16
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

and if you need me to do anything different on a log i can as well.
EFICU
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

Okay I put together a file for you to get started with. The one you're were driving on wasn't too bad, but I think we can get it a lot better on my stuff, not to mention getting you out of a race calibration.

Yeah once you get your parts, I can retune it for you if you want to. One thing to look into with dyno tuning is how much your tuner will tune the part throttle driving, so keep that in mind. Some tuners will tune it for wide open throttle (WOT) and not focus on part throttle tuning. So be sure to find a reputable tuner that will provide you with a specific product to you and your car. Some even tune them on the dyno then street tune, so just be sure to find someone who will take good care of you if you want to go that route. Just be mindful and seek a tuner that provides you the best product, even if you have to drive some distance to get to them.

Give this one a drive when you can. Shoot for that 20 minute range like you did before, and make one WOT pull in third gear from 2500-8600 so we can see the WOT fueling. Once we get some data, you can have some more fun with the next revision. For this one, drive it normal like you would and the one WOT pull.
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akanep16
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

I will definitely keep that in mind if or when I get dyno tuned thank you! I actually had my laptop with me and was able to load that calibration before i left work so heres my drive with that. There is 2 3rd gear pulls because I thought I messed up the first one lol. Question though do you think its weird I have seen 0 knock count on both calibrations? Could I have a faulty sensor?
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EFICU
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

Yeah just be mindful of where you take it. I hate seeing you guys spend a lot of money only to be left with a one size fits all tune.

Overall this new calibration was a great start. All the fueling was very close, I made a few adjustments to the part throttle and WOT fueling for the next one. We'll see how it looks in the next datalog.

I do think there is something going on with the knock sensor. I was watching that in your first datalog, but I didn't want to panic since I didn't see the original calibration you had. But in the first datalog, your knock control value was down to like 3% or something, when they should stop going down around 54-56% on 8th gens. On my calibration, it was normal at 55%. Which is interesting, because there was another guy I was working with who bought an 8th gen just a week ago, and it had a knock sensor code in the system. His knock level readings are very similar to yours, so I would cautiously say your knock sensor is not working well at part throttle, but at WOT it seems to be working okay, though replacement would still be recommended. You have big plans for this car, so I would replace the sensor if you can. If not, at least tell your tuner that you think there is an issue with the sensor so he doesn't keep adding timing thinking you don't have any knock. Of course when you tell him you might have a bad sensor, he will probably recommend replacing it. But yeah, I would replace the sensor, if nothing else for good maintenance.

What octane fuel do you run?

Here is the next one for you. We'll see how the knock sensor acts on this one and double check all the fueling. Normally I tell guys to feel free to have some fun at this point, but with the knock sensor possibly failing, just keep it to normal driving and one third gear WOT pull. Also, if you want we can turn it down some and pull a few degrees out to keep it super safe while you wait for your new sensor to come in. Totally up to you.
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akanep16
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

Well the funny part is I have a brand new knock sensor I just installed it so well see on this run! I had bought one of the cheapos because I broke mine off on starter replacement. But the first new one I installed I still got the P0325 so I requested a replacement from rockauto and installed it today after that last data log you saw. Well I had a p0325 until the very first tune I uploaded then it hasnt been back but it looks like the knock sensor isnt working great. I do run 93 only and the first tune i ever ran was a stock calibration before I installed intake and some knocks registered so Im hoping its working and maybe just actually not knocking. Im going to upload that calibration and send you a new datalog probably tomorrow.
EFICU
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

So the sensor in the car is an aftermarket one? If so, that could be the issue then. I haven't come across this issue a lot, but since I have two of you experiencing similar issues I am sort of learning on the job. I can spot a bad o2 sensor from a mile away now, but this one is something that I will have to see how thing iron out for you two. The other guy purchased a new sensor, but I don't know off the of my head if he went OEM or aftermarket since he ordered it before he contacted me. Since you guys are showing similar symptoms, I am curious to see.

Here is a little comparison so you can see what I am talking about. This chart is a ten minute section of recorded sound from the knock sensor on three different cars including yours. If you look at the top graph, that is from the other guy who had a bad knock sensor code. Notice very low activity, then you're in the middle and your knock level is a little higher, but still low. Then on the bottom is from a good working sensor and what most 8th gens look like. The long low level on the bottom graph is at idle. So you're sort of in the middle, but what I would consider on the lower end. If it is an aftermarket sensor, I would lean towards poor calibration of their sensor maybe. If it's OEM, as in a genuine Honda, then more research would need to be had.
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Knock-Level.jpg
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.

But yeah, let me know on the sensor. There could be a wire or something damaged too, but it would be more likely that the sensor is faulty based on being aftermarket, if it is.
akanep16
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

Yes it is aftermarket! I see what you are saying maybe something is different about the aftermarket vs oem knock sensor. Here is my drive today with your updated calibration so I guess well see if this new sensor is any better! if anything i can order an oem one. It definitely feels better driving the car with this calibration vs my first one though.
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EFICU
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

I see, yeah if it's aftermarket it's hard to say how much we can trust it. I'm always leery of aftermarket sensors controlling the vital components of the fuel and ignition, as in the knock sensor and primary o2 sensors. Not only is there perhaps the lack of quality compared to Honda parts, but their overall longevity I don't know we can trust. I always error on the side of caution, so I can be overlay cautious in scenarios like this. I know the new sensors aren't cheap, so I hate to say pick one up so we know we're working with a known good OEM sensor, but it seems like the best path. I don't really have another way to test the sensor really. I mean we could add timing to see if it knocks, but that isn't wise and if the sensor is less sensitive than OEM, we might be getting knock but the sensor won't record it. For long term peace of mind, a new OEM sensor would be the best bet.

That last datalog looked really good. The part throttle fueling was great, and the WOT fuel only needed a couple adjustments. So it's looking good. Here is the next one for you, let me know what you think on all the knock sensor talk.
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akanep16
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by akanep16 »

Well I think I will look this weekend at getting an OEM replacement then! I do believe the one I have now is working if you look at the knock level for me and let me know what you think if it is better than before or still lower than the oem youve seen. I still probably will end up with oem one though just to be extra careful. Here is todays drive with that adjustment.
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EFICU
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Re: 09 Si help with hybrid racing intake tune.

Post by EFICU »

It's entirely up to you on the sensor, don't let me be the final say. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything responsibly on my end so I'm comfortable in the help I am providing you. It's been a rare sight for the last year or so to see zero knock an 8th gen from just about any basemap, but it's possible. If it is knock free that's awesome, but as we discussed, I am overly cautious when I have control over other peoples cars and want to make sure we are making a positive impact on the engine and not potentially harming it. I believe the sensor is working, but I don't think it's recording the level of noise that an OEM one would. Which doesn't mean it's knocking, but it could mean that it's not hearing random knock. But either way, whatever you're comfortable with is good by me, I don't like telling people to buy an expensive sensor, believe me. Some tuners wouldn't even worry about not seeing any knock and just move on, and some bypass the knock sensitivity tables all together so no knock is recorded even with a good sensor. I leave all the sensitivity tables and strategies how Honda and Hondata lay them out for us to use, so I try to make sure every table is working with each other as designed.

That datalog looked really good. Part throttle fuel was about as good as we can hope, I made a couple touchups on the WOT fueling to tighten them up. Also the fuel compensations seem to be working great since your intake temps were pretty warm on this one. Anyways, I think we'll be there on this one. But take it for a spin when you can and we'll double check everything is good.
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