Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

K-Series Programmable ECU installation questions / support issues
nuk1ear
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Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:28 am

Ok im trying to understand how this works, so I'm hoping someone else has encountered this issue;

K24 with PRB ecu
Kpro v4
100psi fuel pressure sensor (0.5=0, 4.5=100)
wideband sensor (0-5v, 0=9AFR, 5=19AFR)

My units are set to Pressure unit PSI (Atmospheric), Lambda unit AFR
I have a pressure sensor and Wideband input set in the analogue inputs. For pressure sensor I select PRESSURE and PSI, then input the above values as CUSTOM INPUT.

For the wideband I do the same but set it to AFR (not lambda).

Now I then go to the SENSOR page and set both the analogue wideband signal (ANALOGUE 1 which is the wideband AND the ECU normal A/F signal) to also be AFR, and I set the pressure sensor to be PSI.

When I datalog and use the display, the A/F reading (the standard value from the ECU, AND ALSO the analogue input value) displays spastic. ie for 14.28 its showing 204 lol. But if I go into sensor and change it to LAMBDA instead of AFR it then shows the right value. What is up with this? This goes for both the A/F value and the analogue 1 (my wideband) value.

FURTHER, the pressure value is showing in the display (for the actual analogue input) as what seems to be KPA when both the SENSOR page AND UNITS and the analogue parameter page are ALL in the same units?

Have I missed something here?
Attachments
Elise k24 frank v3.0.kal
(162.6 KiB) Downloaded 108 times
Last edited by nuk1ear on Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hondata
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong

Post by Hondata » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:32 am

In the custom settings the pressure units need to be in bar, and the wideband units in lambda. The display settings may be psi or afr.
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nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong

Post by nuk1ear » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:19 pm

So by custom settings you mean the Analogue Input custom setting? As in the page in Parameters -> "Analogue inputs" -> Custom Input?? Not the Units page right? And when I input the values, should they be input and converted by me from psi to bar? As in instead of 4.5v=100psi I should put 4.5v=6.89476? And for the wideband I should put 0v=0.61Lambda and 5v=1.29Lambda?

Thanks for that but would you be able to explain why that works? Is it just how the software currently works?

nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong

Post by nuk1ear » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:51 am

I look forward to the answer to the above question because it has lead into very frustrating closed loop incorrect operation.

As you can see from the datalog, despite the lambda reading being not far from the commanded value, the ECU is then through closed loop ADDING fuel when it should be taking it away. Effectively doing the opposite of what it should be doing.

The only explanation for this is that the ECU is actually getting an AFR value 14.7 as a Lambda value in its processing when expecting a LAMBDA value of 1.0. Therefore thinking that the reading is 14.7 LAMBDA and adding fuel to bring it down to 1.0 lambda. As seen in the log, it adds fuel via S.TRIM up to the maximum.

There is some issues here which I think need resolving, but for now, can you please let me know the answer to my previous post:

1.Do I insert values DIRECTLY as correct conversions for pressure as BAR and oxygen readings and Lambda; ie. instead of 4.5v=100psi I should put 4.5v=6.89476bar? And for the wideband I should put 0v=0.61Lambda and 5v=1.29Lambda?
2. Is there anything else I should change in UNITS or SENSOR pages to ensure that the ECU doesn't get confused/receive the incorrect values?

This is very very important as one of the key features for the v4 unit for me was the closed loop from analogue input.

Appreciate your comments and help.
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Closed loop error 2.kdl
(434.31 KiB) Downloaded 97 times

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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong

Post by Hondata » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am

Let's go back to the beginning. As per the posting guidelines, post the calibration and tell us what version software you are using. The current software is fairly clear about what units are used for custom analog inputs used as wideband inputs so I suspect that you are using an old version. Also, what wideband are you using?
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nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong

Post by nuk1ear » Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:27 pm

Ok, well I already posted the kal in the first post but Ill post it again anyway.

Second, I believe that is incorrect, the software in no way tells you which unit is to be used, instead the software allows you to select either Lambda or AFR for your input data in the custom input section.

I am using the latest software 4.2.0.0 and upgraded to 4.2.2.0 but theres no apparent difference for anything to do with my problem. The software help contents have no written information i can find which relates to this either. There appears to be nothing wrong with my wideband, I have a separate gauge to display the AFR and it is showing the same values as the software, the output on the controller is sending a 0-5v signal which i checked etc so I cant find any issues with the sensor/controller itself.

The datalog clearly shows S.trim coming in and movie up to its maximum correction and the AFR moving rich as this happens. Theres no reason to suspect the controller or sensor at this point until we can figure out why the ECU is thinking that the AFR is different to what its displaying and what the controller is showing, and this appears to stem directly from the analogue input issue.

Anyways, let me know what you think, anyone please chime in if you might be able to help. Ill try a couple of things tonight maybe.
Last edited by nuk1ear on Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by Hondata » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:26 am

Sorry, I missed the calibration in your first post. The range for the pressure sensors needs to be in bar, not psi. The lambda and temperature look ok.
What wideband are you using?
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nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:23 pm

Ok, please see my latest kal, its set as you requested. I will attempt to try it tonight. Please note that closed loop is disabled in this kal because I was going to start tuning the engine without it.

This is the wideband i am using: http://wbo2.com/2j/2j9.htm
Attachments
Elise k24 frank v3.0.kal
(162.61 KiB) Downloaded 93 times

nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:43 pm

Ok reporting back. As requested I changed all units and settings to be in LAMBDA, including analogue input values. The values display correctly and datalog correctly. BUT Closed loop STILL does not work. It will operate the reverse of what it should be doing, targeting some randomly MASSIVE rich value and adding fuel until it hits max short term trim.

What can it be? I think it is because on the page for idle lambda control, it only lets you input an AFR value (14.7). If you even attempt to input a LAMBDA value of 1 it will not accept it and go to 20. You CANNOT input a lambda value into the IDLE LAMBDA CONTROL:

https://www.hondata.com/kpro-help

Windows/parameters/idle:
Target idle LAMBDA, but you cannot input a lambda value only an air fuel ratio value. Is this possibly causing the issue?

I cannot run the vehicle with closed loop enabled. I must run open loop in which my tune is quite accurate, idling exactly at 1.0 lambda when at temperature and sits on the target lambda during warmup. Im stumped. Would really like some help here.

Attached 2 logs which show the short term trim ruining the lambda
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idle closedloop fail 1.kdl
(597.03 KiB) Downloaded 91 times
idle closedloop fail 2.kdl
(387.54 KiB) Downloaded 92 times

nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:18 pm

surprised that this is still unanswered. Can someone at least acknowledge if this is a genuine software/firmware issue and let me know if they are working on a fix?

Its very annoying since most of the reason I upgraded to the V4 was in order to use the closeloop from analogue input feature. As well as the ethanol input which im not sure is working (I wont make that assumption because I havent tried another sensor yet, but mine displays no information for ethanol % or fuel temp).

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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by Hondata » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:35 pm

Please give us a chance to test this (it has only been 5 working hours).
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nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:12 pm

Understood, thanks for replying. Sometimes i forget the time difference (Im in australia).

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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by Hondata » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:32 pm

The short answer is that you can't run closed loop from a custom analog input, so we've added the Techedge as a wideband. We'll release a beta tomorrow morning.
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nuk1ear
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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by nuk1ear » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:56 pm

Ok,
Thank you for the information. Thats some very important information which I think should be documented clearly in the manual.

Could you tell me the signal curve you have used? Same as my custom input? Appreciate the effort to quickly take action.

Image

Kind Regards,
Beau

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Re: Analogue Inputs read wrong and closed loop functions incorrectly

Post by Hondata » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:26 am

Here is the beta version:
We used the conversion as per the manual, voltage = (afr-9)/2
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