Cam timing not operating correctly

K-Series Programmable ECU installation questions / support issues
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hardcorersxs
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:49 am

Cam timing not operating correctly

Post by hardcorersxs » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:58 pm

I'm doing a tune for my client and i realized that with all the low cam set to 30 degrees cam timing at full throttle, early in the rpm range it starts close to 50 and then finally reduces. Not sure why its doing this but i've attached a log and the 30 low cam map calibration. This also happened on the 20 degrees map as well

As you can see it showed it was lean as well, but the log before in that rpm range showed 13:1 af.

Car and Mod list

2002 Civic Si hatch Ep
K20a Type R Motor
RC 550cc injectors
Brian Crower valve train
Brain Crower Stage 2 cams
2.5" (no Cat) full exh. magnaflow muffler
Buddy Club RH
AEM V2

Look forward to a solution
Attachments
30 Degrees Full Throttle-Low Cam.3.kal
(47.03 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
30_degrees_stutter_1.kdl
(508.74 KiB) Downloaded 53 times

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Hondata
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Post by Hondata » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:30 am

The datalog does not match the calibration.

There are several things to look at:
- the fuel and ignition tables need tuning - there are spikes and lumps.
- the cam angle tables need tuning - the low speed cam has a step at 128 kPa and the high speed cam angle table a dip at 7700 rpm
- there is significant knock under load
- closed loop is disabled yet there is a short term trim and no error codes
- idle speed seems very high

The best thing to do is to download the latest version of KManager, fix some of the tables, clear security and upload the calibration again.
Hondata

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Spunkster
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Post by Spunkster » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:54 pm

2 things to try:

1) Go to online, Tools, and clear security, when that is finished, close Kmanager, reopen it, load your calibration and upload it to the ecu.

2) Try a different VTC control mechanism from a known working car as your may be damaged or dirty.

hardcorersxs
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:49 am

Post by hardcorersxs » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:51 pm

Hondata wrote:The datalog does not match the calibration.

There are several things to look at:
- the fuel and ignition tables need tuning - there are spikes and lumps.
- the cam angle tables need tuning - the low speed cam has a step at 128 kPa and the high speed cam angle table a dip at 7700 rpm
- there is significant knock under load
- closed loop is disabled yet there is a short term trim and no error codes
- idle speed seems very high

The best thing to do is to download the latest version of KManager, fix some of the tables, clear security and upload the calibration again.
[EDIT] Unless some of the sensors are not working properly, which will cause bad data

That's why i posted to show there is something going on here (especially at the cam timing).

1) This was for 30 degrees and 30 degrees only. These cams are VERY VERY sensitive and as I stated, in previous calibration, there is zero knock (as in that datalog, just knock level) count and this only showed on this particular interval.
2) This is an all motor setup, so 128 would be in the boost tables. High cam angle tables have yet to be tuned to due these cams being very picky on the low cam (especially part throttle)
3) As stated, no knock count just some knock level (not actual knock), but as I stated, only in this particular log, not in other 30 degree low cam logs.
4) AFter looking at the log once again, there is no short term fuel trim.
5) these cams don't like a lower idle. Customer agreed to keep it at 1000.

This is a tune still in process on the low cam. Believe it or not, these cams on this engine doesn't like anything over 13.5 a/f ratio for part throttle, for smooth operation (trust me, i've tried decreasing timing while adding fuel, decreasing fuel while adding timing (caused knock), tested all cam angles at all rpms under part throttle)

-Latest Kmanager is installed, ground in proper location. All usb drivers updated to latest. We've cleared security several times and that doesn't fix the issue.

Spunkster, that's good advice. Should i tell my client to replace the intake cam gear?

thanks for both responses.

cranny
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Post by cranny » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:16 pm

id definitely start with checking the timing again. sounds almost like its not timed properly. i had these cams and valvetrain in my car for a short time. halso had problems tuning them. finally decided to take valve cover off and have a look. ONE of the rocker arms was tapping on the retainer and eating it away. that and on one cylinder , one of the low cam lobes on the intake cam was severly worn , damaged. brand new cams. ill never buy another brian crower product again personally.

heres pics if your interested , its very obvious the camshaft was ground on a weak core. look how porous it is.

Image

Image

Image

jcroproductions
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Post by jcroproductions » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:18 am

Ouch on the Brian Crower stuff. I would not be a happy camper if I saw that on my expensive cams.

hardcorersxs
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:49 am

Post by hardcorersxs » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:58 pm

thanks on the response guys. I found out that he had some skunk2 intake cam gears on there and I said those must be removed immediately and replace the map sensor just incase to ensure it is reading properly.

I've informed my client to do some inspections as well

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