Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

K-Series Programmable ECU Calibration updates / downloads
jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:08 pm

Yeah, I'm shifting around 7-7400 because ya can just hear/feel it give out.. So the IAT is 100% the cause or should I be digging around for something else?

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by keto06 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:25 pm

It certainly looks intake related to me. Even if you were at elevation, MAP shouldnt fall off that hard.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:30 pm

Ahhh HAAA!!
Atlanta is relatively higher up than most... 1k ft above sea level..

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by keto06 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:46 pm

Just as a test, take the socks off for a run and see if you pull the same pressure.
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:16 pm

Yeah ??

I know it's some temporary shade tree engineering, but it keeps the dirt out and flows... I'll try it ...

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:00 pm

While I'm fixing a few things, cosmetic & necessary...

1. Securing the routing of the shifter cables.(Don't wanna burn up on exhaust)
2, Protecting & insulating the 00awg batt cable routed to trunk & adding exhaust heat shielding out of an accord.
3. Replacing the PRB Mani with RBB and finding some flex tubing of an OE application to get cold air from outside the engine bay.
4. Do some more test hits.

Thought I'd drop this here for everybody's reading, while I sort out some TB & IM issues...

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/blogs ... tions.html

Given my MAP(6-13 uploads) is in single digits, Barometric pressure is at 29.?? I've got an obvious airflow issue to sort out...

And here's a nice quote:
The best way to find out if your TB is too small for your IM plenum is to determine what the intake manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor is reading (in the plenum) when you are at full throttle ( or wide open throttle (WOT) ) while the car is accel using a datalogger. The MAP should be equal to, or close to, atmospheric pressure. If it isn't or there is a MAP drop at WOT, then your TB is still too small.

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:22 pm

keto06 wrote:Just as a test, take the socks off for a run and see if you pull the same pressure.
Base #4 No Soc, routed CAI to fender well.JPG
Base #4 No Soc, routed CAI to fender well.JPG (154.67 KiB) Viewed 5739 times
Also have a before & after 2nd gear pull routing the CAI to fenderwell.......... Butt Dyno felt upper RPM difference.

Still have PRB mani... Will be doing that swap & testing this weekend!
Attachments
Base #4 2nd gear-Before.kdl
(148.59 KiB) Downloaded 57 times
Base #4 2nd gear-After.kdl
(268.38 KiB) Downloaded 54 times

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by keto06 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:14 pm

Difference is night and day!
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by keto06 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:17 pm

MAP.PNG
MAP.PNG (114.15 KiB) Viewed 5732 times

Look at the MAP difference at the same RPM
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Not really sure what all that means... That understanding part is on my to-do list, need to find a local guy I could stick to for a few months...

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:23 pm

keto06 wrote:Difference is night and day!
And to note: this was during the heat of the day... before I was doing my pulls after the sun went down...

**Sock still on, but now running out of engine compartment.

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:07 pm

keto06 wrote:Look at the MAP difference at the same RPM
So ya think that is good enough to take to the dyno ??

If so, I want to swap to the RBB and do a few test pulls.... get a base for both mani's to take to the dyno, see where the power curve sits on each before choosing a turbo to compliment the RBB if it sits better in the engine compartment.

keto06
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by keto06 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:46 pm

The car ran MUCH better in the after pull. Whatever you did there, you should keep it. The lack of high RPM MAP pressure was killing your power.

I made a few adjustments. This should suit you either way.

As far as the manifold difference, I dont know how much difference you will see pre-turbo, but I'll make some adjustments.

Your tables will have to be completely redone for boost anyway.
Attachments
K20a2-550-5.kal
(163.17 KiB) Downloaded 67 times
07 Civic Si Sedan
Drop-In Filter, Berk HiFlow Cat, 2.5" exhaust, 60a rear mount, Mugen Sport Suspension, FlashPro Tuned by me.
14.6@97 (full weight)
Hit me up for free Hondata Help!

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:15 am

Because of the EM2 swap requires cutting the radiator/core support to fit RBC or other aftermarket IM, I'm looking at the 06 TSX RBB because it turns down vs straight out.. Hopefully I can see performance differences from the PRB at the dyno with the benefits of making more room for an intercooler.

The only place I could find a real comparison(not butt dyno threads) is here http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to ... -shootout/ However, while it seems bias to the RRC manifold... I see big issues with the dyno results on a ported RBB to a non ported head as far as getting turbulence entering the unmatched head... Noway am I saying that porting wouldn't create more power, but matched to the head is critical, flowing heads... etc, I think that skewed the dyno results of the RBB. PLUS, I think the RBB design giving torq at low-mid range will complement well with a bigger turbo that delivers power on the mid-upper end, slow spooling... etc

Here's where I'm at; wanting solid dialed in maps for both manifolds to take to the dyno... run them both with a lil wrench time in between pulls See which does what, power curve comparison.. make a decision and build turbo based on that NA flow... Might even port match the head & IM before turbo.

I'll give this #5 a shot... get ya some pulls in maybe a week.

jodin1234
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Base map upgrade needed. '02 k20a2, Random cat & 70mm exh, 550cc

Post by jodin1234 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:06 pm

keto06 wrote:The car ran MUCH better in the after pull. Whatever you did there, you should keep it. The lack of high RPM MAP pressure was killing your power.

I made a few adjustments. This should suit you either way.

As far as the manifold difference, I dont know how much difference you will see pre-turbo, but I'll make some adjustments.

Your tables will have to be completely redone for boost anyway.
Hey man!!
Had some bumps in the road, life stuff come up... etc
I've got some more assembly to do before testing base #5... but have a question. Yes I have the RBB standing ready and if you do not see a tuning issue, I'll continue on with that as planned. My new find is a bigger TB out of a TL/CL (66mm vs 62mm).. Will that affect the tune ? I can always keep the orig TB with the RBB if it'll create too large of a step to adjust for ..

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