TSX K-Pro Questions

K-Series Programmable ECU Calibration updates / downloads
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Tsx536
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TSX K-Pro Questions

Post by Tsx536 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:08 pm

Hi Everyone,

New K-pro owner here. My setup

2004 Acura TSX
Comptech Supercharger 5 psi
Comptech Icebox Intake
310CC injectors
DC header
Stock VTC (25 Degrees Max Cam Angle)
Stock CAT / Exhaust

1) Is any knock normal? Or is a well tuned engine suppose to have 0 knocks?
2) I've read ignition that is too low can cause high exhaust temps. I've removed as much as 3-4 degrees from some tables. How low, is too low?
3) I've noticed that the engine will sputter and RPMs will dip as low as 500 when I get to stop lights. Is that normal?

Thanks in advance!

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Hondata
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Post by Hondata » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:57 am

1. It depends. If you apply fuel load in 6th at 1200 rpm you'll get knock with pump fuel no matter how far you retard the ignition. A single knock or two at VTEC is not unusual. What you need to look for is 3-4 knocks or more in about 1500 rpm range when doing a full throttle pass.

The trick with a supercharger is that too little ignition on the low cam seems to produce false knock.

2. Low cam should be about 16 degrees under boost, high cam 18-22 depending on fuel and boost level.

3. If the ECU loses power then it takes about 3 full driving cycles to learn the idle.
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Tsx536
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Post by Tsx536 » Fri May 01, 2009 12:39 pm

In reviewing datalogs, I see places where the knock count increases, even though the knock level is not above the knock threshold.

1) Does this mean this is not true knock even though the knock count is going up?

Is true knock considered to be places where the knock level exceeds the knock threshold?

2) Also, for my TSX the "disable idle valve" checkbox should be checked. Does this mean that "idle valve duty" slider below the checkbox has no effect on idle?

3) My TSX has a stock VTC that limits the cam angle to 25 degrees. In the calibration that I have the cam angles are set for greater than 45 degrees in some areas. In situations where the ecu tries to advance the cam angle to 45 degrees but can only advance to 25 degrees because of the mechanical limitation.
Which cam angles tables is the ECU using?
Does the ECU determine which table to use based on where the cam angle currently is?
Or based on the value within the cam angle tables?

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Post by Hondata » Tue May 05, 2009 8:11 am

1) The knock level and threshold are sampled when datalogging. Just because the datalogged knock level does not exceed the threshold does not mean the knock has not occurred.

2) Yes. I believe the TSX ECU controls the idle.

3) The cam will stop at 25 degrees. The ECU always uses the tables from the actual cam angle, not the target cam angle, so will be a combination of the 20 and 30 degree tables.
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Tsx536
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Post by Tsx536 » Tue May 05, 2009 12:31 pm

Thank you for the responses.

In your testing, how accurate is the Civic Wideband O2 sensor?

I have a PLX M300 hooked up and and the PLX reads a fuel point higher than the oxygen sensor at high RPMs and WOT throttle. During closed loop, both sensors read close to 14.7. Thoughts?

1) What is the lowest value that the Civic Wideband can have? Does it read down to 10.5?

2) Have you noticed any variance in the readings of the Civic O2 sensor vs. the AF read on a dyno? (Specifically at WOT, high RPMs)

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Post by hardcorersxs » Tue May 05, 2009 6:09 pm

Tsx536 wrote:Thank you for the responses.

In your testing, how accurate is the Civic Wideband O2 sensor?

I have a PLX M300 hooked up and and the PLX reads a fuel point higher than the oxygen sensor at high RPMs and WOT throttle. During closed loop, both sensors read close to 14.7. Thoughts?

1) What is the lowest value that the Civic Wideband can have? Does it read down to 10.5?

2) Have you noticed any variance in the readings of the Civic O2 sensor vs. the AF read on a dyno? (Specifically at WOT, high RPMs)


1) The acura/honda o2 widebands read down to 11.48xx
2) Every sensor is within precision range. I've tuned lots of honda's using honda wideband sensors but since you have a plx wideband, then you could use that as well. Where is your plx placed compared to the stock sensor? That could be the difference as well

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Post by Hondata » Wed May 06, 2009 7:25 am

Where are you sensors located?

The Honda wideband reads to 11.5:1, but seems less sensitive for richer mixtures than a PLX. I've found the Honda wideband to read correctly at high load / high rpm, but the response seems slower and you end up with a flatter AF line (it looks 'averaged') that you would get from a PLX.
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Tsx536
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Post by Tsx536 » Mon May 11, 2009 11:19 am

Hondata wrote:Where are you sensors located?
The Civic O2 sensor is in the stock bung of my DC header. PLX Sensor is about 1.5"-2.0" after the Stock sensor, also in my DC header. Both are before the flex pipe.

I just did some datalogging and Civic Sensor was reading down to 11.49, while the PLX was reading 12.8-13.0. I've had the PLX about 30K miles. Previously had the Comptech SC reflash and depending on weather, the PLX would read between 11.8-12.5 at WOT.

Thought it might be a problem with the Civic Sensor, so I just swapped out with a brand new Civic O2 sensor.

At this point, I'm not sure which sensor to trust. Both read close to 14.7 during closed loop. I think the PLX has always read about .3-.4 high, but there is quite a difference of 1.3 to 1.5 between the two sensors.

Auto tranny btw, if that makes any difference. Thanks.

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Post by hardcorersxs » Mon May 11, 2009 11:27 am

Tsx536 wrote:
Hondata wrote:Where are you sensors located?
The Civic O2 sensor is in the stock bung of my DC header. PLX Sensor is about 1.5"-2.0" after the Stock sensor, also in my DC header. Both are before the flex pipe.

I just did some datalogging and Civic Sensor was reading down to 11.49, while the PLX was reading 12.8-13.0. I've had the PLX about 30K miles. Previously had the Comptech SC reflash and depending on weather, the PLX would read between 11.8-12.5 at WOT.

Thought it might be a problem with the Civic Sensor, so I just swapped out with a brand new Civic O2 sensor.

At this point, I'm not sure which sensor to trust. Both read close to 14.7 during closed loop. I think the PLX has always read about .3-.4 high, but there is quite a difference of 1.3 to 1.5 between the two sensors.

Auto tranny btw, if that makes any difference. Thanks.
The plx voltage offset would need to be adjusted via kpro to make a fair comparison

Tsx536
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Post by Tsx536 » Mon May 11, 2009 12:01 pm

Thanks for the reply Mike. I'm actually basing my comparison on looking at the digital display on the PLX vs. the AF ratio reading of the Civic O2 in my datalogs.

Tsx536
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Post by Tsx536 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:20 pm

Hondata, just wondering what your thoughts on this were. Thanks!

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Post by Hondata » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:49 am

The Civic sensor is not that accurate at rich AFs. I suspect the PLX is correct.
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