H22 calibration included with SManager

deafy · Post by **deafy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:05 pm

Is the H22 calibration file with 450cc injectors for supercharged h22 or turbo h22??

Post by **Spunkster** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:17 am

The description says stock H22

deafy · Post by **deafy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:27 pm

I've tried that on my stock h22... it was WAY rich... plus, the fuel map has boost levels and it seems to be for turbo... 450cc injectors are not stock on h22 but that map is for 450cc...

Post by **Spunkster** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:44 pm

yes, a stock engine with 450cc injectors

deafy · Post by **deafy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:01 pm

But if its tuned for stock h22 with 450cc... wouldn't that cause my car to run lean since i'm using stock 290cc?

locash · Post by **locash** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:55 pm

You can try changing the injector size in the software to get you closer to reality, although that may not work so well in your environment.

You may want to consider using that as a basemap and then have your car properly tuned, as changing the injector multiplier may not be the best solution for you.

crluver123 · Post by **crluver123** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:40 pm

the calibration that comes with smanager for stock h22 is sooooooo far off its not even funny. it is listed as being a stock tune for a stock h22a with 450cc injectors. but it is even rich as all holy hell for stock injectors, let alone 450cc injectors. i can see that simply by looking at the mapping without even trying it in a car.

and if you try putting 450cc injectors in the car and use this calibration, i would be surprised if the car even starts at all. with 450cc injectors, this calibration would dump so much fuel, liquid gas would come pouring out the exhaust pipe.

whoever added this calibration to the list of calibrations that comes with smanager obviously didnt review it.

if attempting to use this calibration as a base, i would suggest cutting the entire fuel map by 40% and using that with the STOCK injectors. if using 450cc injectors, i would say cut it down by about 65% and going from there.
or just ignore the entire fuel maps as they are, and keep leaning out the idle cells until it will actually start. then gradually work down the columns it reads from while in neutral gradually increasing rpm. then basically adjust the higher load columns by using autotune. then disable autotune and adjust accordingly.

and btw, the target lambda tables are also incorrect, so i would suggest adjusting those as necessary too.
in vtec at high load and/or higher rpms 13.0-13.2 is a good target a/f, not 13.5. high load in vtec likes to run rich
and the target a/f shouldnt jump instantly from 14.7 to 13.5. i would say change the far right 14.7 column to 14.0, and the next 14.7 column to 14.3 or so.

Post by **Hondata** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:48 am

Did you use that calibration on a H22A with 450cc injectors?

deafy · Post by **deafy** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:53 pm

Target A/F in VTEC should be 11... I would know cuz I watched my wideband O2 with my stock ecu in it, it read around 12.5 low RPM, 11.8 around 4000 rpm and gradually decreases to 11.0 then vtec hits, then it goes from 10.8 and gradually decreases to 10.2 as you reach redline. I'm curious as to who actually did this H22 450cc tune, Hondata themselves or someone that submitted the map to them after tuning their H22. I've got 450cc injectors on the way and I'll let you know if the calibration works or not... this is probably the only way to know for sure.

crluver123 · Post by **crluver123** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:39 am

wow, um, holy crap wow! something is deffinitely wrong with your car, or your wideband if you got those a/f numbers there guy.

that is waaaay too rich for stock. it should be hitting around 14.7 for almost all rpms from zero throttle to almost half throttle, and 13's over that. i've done several datalogs with stock h22's and they all follow that when running correctly. some have dipped into 12's in vtec , but thats about it

crluver123 · Post by **crluver123** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:42 am

Hondata wrote:Did you use that calibration on a H22A with 450cc injectors?

i've never used this calibration yet. this weekend i may be able to test it though, as im going to a prelude meet and have a lot of guys that want me to tune their cars with crome pro, and one or two with hondata ecu's that want me to tune them as well. the guys with hondata are using them in 90/91 preludes with b21a1's though. i'll see if i can use theirs in an h22 prelude using the h22 calibration to test out what happens and report back.

~Steve

Silverbeast · Post by **Silverbeast** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:46 pm

crluver123 wrote:wow, um, holy crap wow! something is deffinitely wrong with your car, or your wideband if you got those a/f numbers there guy.

that is waaaay too rich for stock. it should be hitting around 14.7 for almost all rpms from zero throttle to almost half throttle, and 13's over that. i've done several datalogs with stock h22's and they all follow that when running correctly. some have dipped into 12's in vtec , but thats about it

So much information, so much false information...

14.7 while being stoich for most cars doesnt mean that is the number that all cars must be tuned at. If you think that is the case, I will suggest that you do a bit more homework before you hand out advice.

As far as what the car should read at WOT, that will need to vary also. I have not seen significant power gains in B series motors between 13.1-13.5. On K series motors you would be suprised on all motor cars what happens when you richen them up to 12.6-12.8.... instead of 13.2.-13.5...dyno proven.... H series cars are the same way. Dont base everything you read from the internet, put the car on the dyno, change the a/f, timing, cam timing and see for youself. You will learn what ACTUALLY works. You will also learn that the values in a stock honda map need to be worked to make power.

crluver123 · Post by **crluver123** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:09 pm

i know this. i have tuned more than a few h22 preludes on the dyno, and on the street. havent done any h22's with hondata yet. saturday i probably will be able to test the calibration included with smanager for h22 on a stock h22 prelude with some minor bolt ons. so we'll see what happens. my guess is it wont even start, let alone run right at all. liked stated above, as soon as i test it, i'll report back.

i can deffinitely say the fuel maps are horrendously off for use with 450cc injectors in an h22 though

i was referring to stoich a/f's at partial throttle for stock engines. bone stock, they should run stoich, and run best at stoich; for partial throttle, up to 1/3 or even sometimes 1/2 throttle

Silverbeast · Post by **Silverbeast** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:42 pm

crluver123 wrote:i know this. i have tuned more than a few h22 preludes on the dyno, and on the street. havent done any h22's with hondata yet. saturday i probably will be able to test the calibration included with smanager for h22 on a stock h22 prelude with some minor bolt ons. so we'll see what happens. my guess is it wont even start, let alone run right at all. liked stated above, as soon as i test it, i'll report back.

i can deffinitely say the fuel maps are horrendously off for use with 450cc injectors in an h22 though

i was referring to stoich a/f's at partial throttle for stock engines. bone stock, they should run stoich, and run best at stoich; for partial throttle, up to 1/3 or even sometimes 1/2 throttle

It's a starting point... if you are a well established tuner you would have a library of maps or previous tunes base tunes to start from. Converting a S200 tune to a S300 map shouldnt be a problem.

CB7H22 · Post by **CB7H22** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:31 pm

I just had my H22A1 w/S300 tuned at Midnight Performance is Sacramento, CA and he started with the H22 base map included with the SManager. Baseline run made 160hp and about 140 ft/lb of torque on a DynoJet. After tuning we got it up to 175.5hp and 151 ft/lb with a/f at around 13.5 @WOT. So the map has been proven to work as a starting point. Runs VERY rich, but it runs.