Why is there no tutorial on how to use this software?

Calibrations for S-Manager - Use all calibrations at your own risk (dyno tuning recommended)
njebudalla
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okie dokie

Post by njebudalla »

From the consumer's standpoint, the one spending the money, that sounds like the wrong attitude, but whatever... as the consumer, i'll just keep an eye out for something produced with a different scope of business in mind. Were I a project manager, I would have thought that whatever made my product easier to use would directly increase my sales. If better sales aren't a concern for Hondata, who am I to say they should make a change. Free feedback is hard to give these days. Next time, I'll be smart enough to do this research prior to making a purchase. I'm the one to blame for pulling the trigger to fast on this one. And, btw, Adobe does offer a tutorial to navigate their software.... in other words... not well said.
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Hondata
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Post by Hondata »

We try to provide as much information as we can to help customers - we have 65 technical articles on the website, 155 help topics, training videos and a DVD. However, at a certain point the type of support changes from 'how do I change the ignition timing?' to 'what should my ignition timing be?' - which is much more difficult to answer as this is influenced by a vast array of factors, all outside the control of the software.

We have had good feedback from people who have taken the efi101 courses.

Can you be more specific with what type of training you would like to see in what areas, or give specific examples to changes that need to be made to our help?
Hondata
GodSpeed Dyno
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Post by GodSpeed Dyno »

just to add a bit on this subject.....

first..Hondata, you have a great product and you have contributed a ton to the world of tuning and especially Honda tuning....the price to value is excellent and you should feel good about what you have created..

Now for the help system......first my background. I have been in the sotware development for 18 years. I was on the first Turbotax development team, did a bit of consulting for Microsoft, have written or colaborated on many help systems for custom apps and am currently the Quality Assurance Architect for a large portion of software development for Penn State University.......besides that I have also owned a dyno shop for 7 year in both California and currently in Pennsylvania. I have raced in many venues and styles..for sand drag racing to stock car racing, did two episode of Monster Garage and feel I have a pretty good feel for software and tuning.......and I don't mention this to "toot my own horn" but to display that my opinion would be considered a "qualified opinion" regarding this discussion.

Tonight was the first time I have used S300 and every time I went to the Help system I did NOT find what I was looking for. The info may be there but is not easily attainable. I would highlysuggest rethinking your logic in how the Help systemis layed out. I understand how the help system is designed with the lowest layer being "topics" and you have many ways to organize these topics.....

Maybe create a "How to" section. or organize by tasks not by functions. When I as a user, I am going to the Help system I am looking for assistance in how to accomplish something. I do not care the layout and design of the software...I want to know how to add fuel at 5000rpm and 10psi...
I tryuy beleive the info is available somewhere in all of your articles etc etc...BUT when I am in the middle of tuning and need to know the short cut key to add 10% of fuel to an area of the map.....make it easy for me to find the answer!!!.........
the help systems main objective is to show me how to use all of the features of your software...in turn this makes me a better tuner and therefore can SELL your product!...the better we are with your software the more $$$ you make!


Thanks for listening!


Peace..............................BartG
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Hondata
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Post by Hondata »

Thanks for the feedback - I agree that much of the information is buried in the details. Any suggestions for tutorials or 'how tos'?
Hondata
GodSpeed Dyno
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Post by GodSpeed Dyno »

maybe a section called "before you start" that would include all of the "crucial" settings that need to be set before you start the car. ie: fuel injector size, MAP type....

create topics that explain each field on each tab. NOT what to set them at but what is their purpose. Between all of the stand alone systems available they use different words that mean the same thing. jsut two quick sentences that explain the purpose of a field and maybe its importance or what it can affect.

a glossary of terms would be awesome!

I have always liked sections titled : How do I? then list a bunch of common questions that users ask, and the corresponding answer...

BECAUSE.....Why is anyone going to the Help system?....Because they have a question!! so list all fo the possible questions and the answers. and this list just grows over time.

also a section that list all of the short cut keys and quick keys to manipulate a table.

Help systems are an ongoing never ending project but WOW the impact you can have with your users....

my number one area to focus on would be pages that gave a quick explanation of each field on each tab...this would immensely helpful...

Peace.....................BartG

PS: I hope your documentation person does not send me a virus! :wink:
ITR 1102
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Post by ITR 1102 »

GodSpeed Dyno: Thank you for your comments. In addition, I would like to add:

An explaination or suggestion of when certain things should be changed (not necessarily what to change them to) would be helpful. With all the extra features and tables that can be edited, knowing when to edit them would be helpful.
As a suggestion, an addition to Overheating Protection might consist of recommended coolant temps and at what rpm Overheating protection might be suggested to engage at.

Overrun Fuel Cutoff might could use further explaination of what changes will have what effect and the purpose of the option. For example, is this option used to counter the car jerking under low throttle, or what is it used for? What effect will the change in the delay have in both a positive and negative direction?

When will ignition compensation be helpful for NA motors and Boosted motors? Especially IAT retard with a supercharged motor seeing over 200 degree intake temps.


Going along with the comment about paying more for this software and expecting better results / support: It seems at times that better support is given on "the other" forum when software related questions are asked. It almost seems like the lack of information provided in the help / software is intentional when a very common answer provided on this forum is "we recommend going to one of our dealers." Hopefully I am wrong there, but it is very aggravating for an end user to receive that as an answer when looking for help.

A comment about the Training DVD... 1) It is for K-Pro. An S300 training video would be nice. I like the idea of watching a project car get tuned from start to finish showing the use of the S300 features and settings. A video for NA and Boost would be great. 2) It is not listed on the pricing page and I have never seen it on any of your dealer's webpages.

Nevertheless, I really like the software and that is why I keep using it and own 4 Hondata systems. I hope you take this as helpful criticism to better your support and products and do not take it in a negative way.
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Hondata
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Post by Hondata »

GodSpeed Dyno: Thanks for the comments.

ITR 1102: Our documentation / training / help primarily pertains to using the software. We can tell you how to do something with our software, but it gets more difficult providing specific tuning answers, ie what to tune an engine to. Otherwise I understand the thrust of your points.

Please be assurred that we have not tried to make the documentation sub standard in order to push people to our dealers. In any case, most people would benefit from an experienced tuner, but most people who use and tune our systems are not our dealers, so that strategy would be of little use to us.
Hondata
Javcolin
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Post by Javcolin »

Hondata wrote:Thanks for the feedback - I agree that much of the information is buried in the details. Any suggestions for tutorials or 'how tos'?
First of all i consider Hondata the Best Software with lots of potential. ones you get to know how to use it.

I would like to see a how to for the Lunch and anti lag feature.

nd probably the most important one. I would like to see a how to start to tune from a stcock map.

Since people with some knwolage are the ones getting the S300 to tune themselves, i took me a while the first time ti rialize that the overlay/recorded A/F needed to clear after avery change, other wise it will keep displaying the same number and not the updated change.

So i'll be great if you make a how to start tunning.

Probably everyone would want to see an example on how to start and see if they are doing in right or are heading to the Right way.

Also i would like to see a how to street tune. i know the best way is using a Dyno, but it may not be available in certain areas for people. I'm one of thouse.

Thanks Hondata.
PhrequenC
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Post by PhrequenC »

i never thought i would see the day where this could actually happen! i have never tuned a car and have read up plenty and read through the help and everything and i cannot tune my car yet.

hurray for Hondata!
crucian
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Post by crucian »

Hondata wrote:GodSpeed Dyno:
Please be assurred that we have not tried to make the documentation sub standard in order to push people to our dealers. In any case, most people would benefit from an experienced tuner, but most people who use and tune our systems are not our dealers, so that strategy would be of little use to us.
I totally agree with Hondata on this one. I dont see why Hondata should tell us how to tune. It shouldn't be on them. They provided us the tools and the explanation on how to use it and make changes. It's our responsibility as users to go out and learn to tune ourselves. I started off knowing nothing about tuning until I started using the product more and more. Now I find myself today being paid to tune others cars. I myself think that the help section is not at 100%, but it is very helpful.
ChickenH
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Post by ChickenH »

I after a year of not touching my car or hondata went out to my garage to get it ready to sell. I threw in a new battery it started right up.Air Fuel on my wideband was way out of wack. I thought what the hell? maybe i started making a new map and never loaded back in my "safe street Tune" I went back to my pc and looked for my tune. Remembered "Oh man my pc had a virus 6 months ago and crashed i no longer have 10 plus hours of tuning and maps.

I downloaded the software again. Uploaded a stock itr tune and started from scratch. I remember some basic stuff. But since it has been a year since i used the software at all I cant remember much besides the most basic. and after an hour of street tune its not going to immediately detonate to death. But it needs a Good Dyno tune by someone whos heart is in it.

I remembered the first time i learned this and wishing i could pay between 100 and 1000 for a Step by step video on how every function worked.

Now I don't really have the time money etc to start over with a new tune or take it to a dyno tuner. Its just sad having a car with 25k into it that I have listed for sale at 4k that will be sold with a horrible tune. Because although I could totally start over learning the software by trial and error again. I would much more likely rather use a step by step Training video and even now would purchase one. The reality of the situation is someone will probably purchase my car Not get it dyno tuned, drive it around on the slightly modified base map and destroy all the initial work i did building a 14 to 1 compression all motor car.


I remember the most: changing something i had a basic idea of what it might be used to do, crossing my fingers hoping that i wasn't counteracting something i had already done correctly with a misinterpretation of how the software's functions worked.
OSracer
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Post by OSracer »

@ ChickenH

Video tutorials the way of the future Hondata could do:
First time setup.
Trouble shooting connection to the s300
test datalogging
Uploading a baseline
Fuel trim before first start.
Setting the Idle
ect
ect

You already have the questions to make the video tutorials in the forums take your top 10 and start from there.

BTW youtube will host the bandwidth free
newsoltsc
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Post by newsoltsc »

I really like this idea.

Being a new user to Hondata, I think that this could be very helpful for noobies (myself included)

I've done a ton of reading, I've even watched my tuner and asked questions. He helped me and showed me the some of the awesome features that the s300 offers (like the real time update and how it shows exactly where on the fuel/ignition map the motor is getting info from).

Tutorials on just the software alone would be a good idea.

I even found myself on youtube looking for videos on the s300 and I didn't find any.

Looking forward to the tutorials in the future!

-Jose
-Jose
VT-Doo
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Post by VT-Doo »

Does anybody read the forum and the actual website :?: :roll:

http://www.hondata.com/stech.html

In particular the "Tuning Guide" and "Tuning Guide II"
Ian


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