Knock at 3000-3500rpm

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the FN2 European Civic Type R
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Abdel
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:21 am

Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by Abdel »

Hi guys,

I need some advice here. Am running a stock FN2 with mods only Tss intake. I have street tune my car and everything was perfect since yesterday,

I noticed some knock occurring under 3000-3500 rpm between column 7,8 & 9. I try to pull out 1 degree timing off in the specific cells but the issue keep repeating. Am having around 10ish knock.

Have anyone faced similar issue with their car.

I have attached the datalog and calibration down. It look that it constantly happen on cylinder 3.

Any adjustments or solution will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Abdel
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EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by EFICU »

Try reducing the timing by 3* in just those cells and see if it goes away. If it does go away, raise it back up by 1* until the knock comes back, then reduce back to the previous values prior to the knock coming back. Only pulling 1* may not be enough to remove knock in many cases. It looks like the majority of your knock is in a group of nine cells on the low cam, and one knock on your high cam WOT pull. If you pull out 3* in those low cam cells and the knock doesn't go away, it is potentially false knock. That's a story for a different day though. For now, reduce that same area by 2-3* and take it for another drive. Then let us know if it has been removed or still there, and we can try to help you from there.
Abdel
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by Abdel »

Thanks for your reply, I will try this and hope it works, however do you think this can cause any severe harm to the engine. Basically if you have notice it's happening on the cylinder 3 most of the time. I have check my coil, change new spark plug but I can see this repeating. What if I add some fuel trim to this specific cylinder, do you think it might help as well.

Regards
A
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by EFICU »

Abdel wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 1:07 pm Thanks for your reply, I will try this and hope it works, however do you think this can cause any severe harm to the engine. Basically if you have notice it's happening on the cylinder 3 most of the time. I have check my coil, change new spark plug but I can see this repeating. What if I add some fuel trim to this specific cylinder, do you think it might help as well.

Regards
A
Always try to remove the knock mechanically in the tune, meaning to reduce timing. If an issue persists in one cylinder, then think about trims. I always adjust the tune and try to reduce the use of bandaids to get through situations like this. Like I mention, if the knock persists after pulling 3*, it is most likely a false knock and then we can discuss what to do next. If you pull 3* and the knock goes away, and you don't notice a reduction power perceived while driving, then I would leave the 3* out. If it is a sensitive area of the tune for ignition, don't run the ragged edge. Leave that 3* out if you don't mind the feel of it driving and it will give you peace of mind that the knock will not happen again.

A few knock on a drive won't hurt anything. The knock sensor is right by cylinder two, so cylinder 2 and 3 are most sensitive to knock noise, which you are experiencing the knock count in. Lots of knock can hurt the engine, but you don't have what anyone would consider a lot of knock for a 2 hour drive. Try reducing the ignition in those cells 3* and take it for another drive. I can remove the timing for you and resend you the calibration if you are nervous on making the changes yourself. Either way, keep me (us) up to date on how it goes. Always good to hear peoples outcomes.
Abdel
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by Abdel »

Hi,

I really appreciate your help. I didn't have time yet to drive my car again. In the meantime I have another question, when I tuned it there was knock free.. it's the first time after tuned I drove for 2 hours + and I saw this.

I tuned my car when in spring that meant he weather temp was quiet low compare to now. Do you think that might as well cause this knock. If so I can compensate some fuel but I don't think this will be helpful haha..

I did remove 1'' in one cell and instantly I feel the car was a little bit heavy on this specific KPA.

I will remove the 3'' and see if it's real or I should go for a knock detection tool to be on the safe side..

As you can see on my map I have stop the ignition on some limit, there was no knock in Open loop do you suggest I can add some more if no knocks occur or i leave it as it is now. Am currently street tune and which is weird is that the fuel on 40 degrees stay higher all the way.. Is that normal or there's some trouble somewhere.

Again thanks for your support mate.

Regards
A
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by EFICU »

Abdel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:37 am Hi,

I really appreciate your help. I didn't have time yet to drive my car again. In the meantime I have another question, when I tuned it there was knock free.. it's the first time after tuned I drove for 2 hours + and I saw this.

I tuned my car when in spring that meant he weather temp was quiet low compare to now. Do you think that might as well cause this knock. If so I can compensate some fuel but I don't think this will be helpful haha..

I did remove 1'' in one cell and instantly I feel the car was a little bit heavy on this specific KPA.

I will remove the 3'' and see if it's real or I should go for a knock detection tool to be on the safe side..

As you can see on my map I have stop the ignition on some limit, there was no knock in Open loop do you suggest I can add some more if no knocks occur or i leave it as it is now. Am currently street tune and which is weird is that the fuel on 40 degrees stay higher all the way.. Is that normal or there's some trouble somewhere.

Again thanks for your support mate.

Regards
A
The temperature can definitely have an impact. Your temps are close to 90*f (32.2c), which is right at the threshold of when the ECU begins to start trimming fuel and ignition for the air temps getting warmer. If you tuned it when it was 15*, then you might have gotten away with a little too much timing. But not necessarily. Since the temps are at 32.2c, it might just be a little too much timing. Are your temps still warm? If you can feel one degree of timing removed, it's either really warm causing the power loss, or might be a mental thing, haha. I am as guilty as it comes to the mental side...

What type of weather climate do you have where you are, what is your coldest temp and for how long is it cold? How hot is your warmest temp and for how long. What you might do it adjust the temperature at which the trims kick in. Right now it's set to trim at 30*c, is this a normal temperature for your geographic location or does it get hotter? So if this is abnormally warm for your part of the world, you can set the trims to pull more timing in this type weather, then in the colder weather it would put the timing in it that you have tuned it for. Most states here in the US get pretty cold, and very hot, so Hondata allows you to adjust the compensations for conditions. I've tuned guys with 65.5c intake temps, just to give you an idea. Give me an idea of your temperature range that would be considered normal for where you are, and then I can try to help you. Having the ECU pull a couple degrees when it gets warm would be ideal, you would lose a little power when it's hot, but when your weather is normal and cool it would deliver the timing you set. Hopefully that all makes sense, I'm rambling now. Haha

Up to you on the knock detection equipment. If you want to make that investment you can. I would probably say to try and remove it with ignition first, but if you are interested in that process for fun it wouldn't hurt. If you do go the knock detection equipment route, if you can confirm there is no knock there, we can raise the knock sensitivity tables in that area so the ECU won't record a knock there in that one group of cells. If you really do think you can feel the couple degrees of ignition removed, and it really bothers you, then yeah I would say go for whichever route interests you the most and gets you to your goals with the tune.

Happy to help, keep me in the loop.
Abdel
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:21 am

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by Abdel »

Hi,

Thanks again for your response.

Am in Czech Republic so we have only 2-3 month summer which mean we can touch the 30. What I remembered is that when I tuned my car it was around 7-10 deg celcius (around IAT 32-34 and ECT - 88) if am not wrong and now it around the 20 so I think that might cause the issue. I already pull the 3 deg on those cell now in the weekend I will have a drive and see what comes up. I heard somewhere that hondata knock table is too sensitive.. I already modified it as you can see but still showing knock which really disturb me.

Is that possible to PM you if you don't mind.

Regards
A
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Knock at 3000-3500rpm

Post by EFICU »

Abdel wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:48 am Hi,

Thanks again for your response.

Am in Czech Republic so we have only 2-3 month summer which mean we can touch the 30. What I remembered is that when I tuned my car it was around 7-10 deg celcius (around IAT 32-34 and ECT - 88) if am not wrong and now it around the 20 so I think that might cause the issue. I already pull the 3 deg on those cell now in the weekend I will have a drive and see what comes up. I heard somewhere that hondata knock table is too sensitive.. I already modified it as you can see but still showing knock which really disturb me.

Is that possible to PM you if you don't mind.

Regards
A
No problem, shoot me a PM any time.
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