fuel level gauge

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the FN2 European Civic Type R
typer86
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by typer86 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:34 am

Hi Hondata,

Ok I understand your side.
To fix this request, please edit my attached calibration (it is AFM cal) with your tested values. I will test this on my car and if this is OK, we have a reverence for all new requests for the Europe FN2 supercharged rotrex - and you can close the other threats in the future.

Regards,

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:28 am

Spunkster wrote:Do not use a race calibration and expect the fuel gauge to read correctly. You should use an AFM calibration and just enable MAP based tuning inside that calibration.
Spunkster, do you mean if we use a MAF based Calibration, and activate the "Use speed/density (MAP) fuel tables" in Flashpro Manager in "Fuel" under "Fuel Table Type" as follows (highlighted in red), by then the RC750cc Injectors are correct fuel/eco flow numbers if we enter 750cc/min in the "Fuel Economy"?:
sdtable.jpg
sdtable.jpg (39.84 KiB) Viewed 4454 times


Hondata wrote:There are three different types of people posting in this forum:
1. Using the race calibration. The fuel consumption is not correct and the fuel gauge is not accurate. This is because it is a race calibration and you should be using the speed density tables under the regular calibration.
2. Using the regular calibration with larger injectors, but has not adjusted the injector size for fuel economy settings.
3. Using the regular calibration with larger injectors, but it still does not work?
I'm not sure about the last category because in our last testing it was working ok, and it is hard to distinguish #3 from #1 and #2 in this thread.
The most People asking about the #3! ;)
Do you have used larger injectors, where it worked?
If yes, what injectors are you useing (brand/size)?

Thanks!

BTW: I am also use a Rotrex supercharged FN2 with larger RC750cc Injectors!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:17 am

Please answer Hondata, we need a solution, now!

Thank you!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

User avatar
R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:22 am

Hondata wrote:
Also I would need:

1. the injector type & size
2. the calibration
3. observed fuel economy vs real fuel economy
4. what effect changing the FlashPro setting for fuel economy has over the dash reading
Name: R-12914
Car: Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Supercharger: Rotrex C30-94

+
1.
RC 750cc (SH4-750/SL4-750)

2.
MAF-Calibration:
R-12914_MAF_Rotrex_FN2.fpcal
(16.39 KiB) Downloaded 166 times
MAP-Calibration:
R-12914_MAP_Rotrex_FN2.fpcal
(17.81 KiB) Downloaded 150 times


3.
Observed fuel economy: 4,4 L/100km
Real economy: 10,82 L/100km

4.
Maximum +0,2 L/100km
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

typer86
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by typer86 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:26 am

/Signed

I have the same results.

Car: Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Supercharger: Rotrex C30-94
+
1.
RC 750cc (SH4-750/SL4-750)

2.
MAF-Calibration:
FN2_Rotrex_v8_final.fpcal
(16.21 KiB) Downloaded 203 times
3.
Observed fuel economy: 3,3L to 4,6 L/100km
Real economy: ~7,5L to 11L/100km (In good days I drive faster - so I need more gas)

4.
I don't know what do you mean?


I hope we get a fixed calibration from hondata.
Last edited by typer86 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

neoarks
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by neoarks » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:54 pm

I have same results, more or less the same.

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Hondata
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Re: fuel level gauge

Post by Hondata » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:08 am

#4 is what value are you using the 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc', and this value affect the gauge fuel economy.
eg if you gauge fuel economy is 50% of the actual fuel economy, then double the number in 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc', and record the results.
If you have large injectors and still have 321 cc in 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc' then there is no way the gauge is going to be correct. I want to weed out those reports and ensure people have tested that parameter before going further.
Hondata

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:28 am

Hondata wrote:#4 is what value are you using the 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc', and this value affect the gauge fuel economy.
eg if you gauge fuel economy is 50% of the actual fuel economy, then double the number in 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc', and record the results.
If you have large injectors and still have 321 cc in 'Fuel flow for fuel economy calc' then there is no way the gauge is going to be correct. I want to weed out those reports and ensure people have tested that parameter before going further.
On this values i used 760 cc/min fuel economy:
Observed fuel economy: 4,4 L/100km
Real economy: 10,82 L/100km
Tank fuel: 46,52 Liters
Driven Kilometers: 430 km

On this values i used 321 cc/min fuel economy:
Observed fuel economy: 4,8 L/100km
Real economy: 11,74 L/100km
Tank fuel: 48,87 Liters
Driven Kilometers: 416,3 km

That's exactly what even surprised me so.
It does not seem to work, or to have no influence on!

Note:
In any case always a percentage deviation of ~59% according to the calculated value (BC) vs. real fuel economy!


For example:
310cc / 41% = 7,56 x 100 = 756cc (RC 750cc Injectors and "Fuel flow for fuel economy calc" is 760cc in Flashpro Manager)
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

typer86
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by typer86 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:17 pm

My experience of this setting:

It seems to be that the changes in the flash pro manager will not set correctly in the ecu.
= Any changes, same or minimal adjusted results.

It looks like that this setting will not correctly written to the ecu. So that the calculation with other values will fail.

If I had the possibility I would investigate this issue on a lower software layer.
As user we have no chance to debug the ecu.

... Strange effect...

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Hondata
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Re: fuel level gauge

Post by Hondata » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:08 pm

R-12914: Then what happens if you use 50 for the injector size, or 5000? This data will help me.
typer86: It would help to know what values and results you have tried.
Hondata

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:24 pm

Hondata wrote:R-12914: Then what happens if you use 50 for the injector size, or 5000? This data will help me.
typer86: It would help to know what values and results you have tried.
Do you mean current injector size Or fuel eco?

If i use 50cc on current injector size, the engine does Not Run/Start!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

User avatar
Hondata
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Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
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Re: fuel level gauge

Post by Hondata » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:11 am

"injector size for fuel economy". It does not need to be the same as the fuel injector size. It just adjusts the output to the dash.
Hondata

typer86
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by typer86 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:18 am

R-12914 wrote:
Hondata wrote:R-12914: Then what happens if you use 50 for the injector size, or 5000? This data will help me.
typer86: It would help to know what values and results you have tried.
Do you mean current injector size Or fuel eco?

If i use 50cc on current injector size, the engine does Not Run/Start!
Did you tested this setting with "5.000"? :-)

@ Hondata, did you have no FN2 ECU in your development environment to check what happens if you upload our calibration which we provided to you?


-----
My tested values:
321 - same result = 3 L/100KM to 4 L/100KM (in Real: 7 L/100KM until 9 L/100KM)
650 - same result = 3 L/100KM to 4 L/100KM (in Real: 7 L/100KM until 9 L/100KM)
674 - same result = 3 L/100KM to 4 L/100KM (in Real: 7 L/100KM until 9 L/100KM)
750 - same result = 3 L/100KM to 4 L/100KM (in Real: 7 L/100KM until 9 L/100KM)
760 - same result = 3 L/100KM to 4 L/100KM (in Real: 7 L/100KM until 9 L/100KM)
fuel_rotrex_new.PNG
fuel_rotrex_new.PNG (97.92 KiB) Viewed 4383 times
fuel_rotrex_new_2.PNG
fuel_rotrex_new_2.PNG (87.15 KiB) Viewed 4383 times

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by R-12914 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:57 am

I have testet over ~20 km with "50cc" in fuel eco:
DSC_0080.JPG
DSC_0080.JPG (2.04 MiB) Viewed 4381 times
and here over ~20 km with "5000cc" in fuel eco:
DSC_0081.JPG
DSC_0081.JPG (1.75 MiB) Viewed 4381 times
Note:
In both cases it is the identical route under similar driving conditions!
There is thus no difference, no matter what value I enter in fuel eco!
I have this apprehension that the value change not anything changes in the ECU!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

typer86
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: fuel level gauge

Post by typer86 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:11 am

Now at this point we can say Hondata must troubeshoot and test this setting.

For a new Hondata Flashpro version please add the supported fuel eco values in your documentation:
- Add: Which setting are supported (limits of the values)
- Add: Calculation pattern / matrix to calculate the correct eco value for the dash
=> depending all other settings: Supercharged, Turbocharged, sucking air or pulling air etc.

- Add: The effect if the value will be increased / decreased

I think it can only be fixed with a new flashpro firmware update.
I am satisfied that the new fuel eco value will not set correctly in the ecu or the ecu will not use the new value.

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