Supercharger

[typer86]

Hi,
I have the same issue with the supercharger. But I do not use the MAP calc. I use the AFM.
The supercharger push air into the engine with 0.5 bar. So the air sensor Register a higher airflow.

AFM_fuel_calc.PNG (49.1 KiB) Viewed 8659 times

After refuel the fuel calc says: You can ride 1200km. But in the real you can drive 500km.
If I switch to the current fuel consumtion in normal drive the ECU tells: 3,5 Liter/100km
That's unreal. Real is 7-8 Liters/100km

The result is if the tank is empty:
If the half of the fuel Level is reached it Drops very quick to empty and the car start crying for a refuel.

I can not believe that it cannot be corrected!
Can I use the the option "Fuel trim" - overall fuel trim? Any sample what is the result if this will be adjusted?
What parameters can be set?

Thanks for help.

[Hondata]

I'm not sure why you're using the AFM for a supercharger. The ECU uses injector duration, not airflow, for the calibration. What injectors are you using?
You need to ensure the injector dead times are correct and set the injector flow for fuel economy parameter.

[typer86]

Hi,

The injectors are from "RC Fuel Injection".

The question is easy to answer why I useing the AFM cal:
The misc features are only enabled in AFM cals not in race maps of the FN2:
> REV-LED
> Check Oil level from the engine

I tested the racemap too and funnily enough the fuel calc is exacly the same. => The ECU displays a total wrong very low fuel calculation.

For the injector flow for fuel economy calc I used the following template:
Source: (End of the page)
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

Fuel_calc.PNG (33.41 KiB) Viewed 8646 times

For setting up the injector dead times I have no technical specs in the package to setting up the opening time (or dead time) of my RC 750cc injecotrs.

Hondata as specialist, did you have any speccs for me which correct data I must enter?

Edit: Will fix the gauge problem if I use your settings from your RC750cc Template: Civic-Si-Race-8-RC750.fpcal ?

Fuel_calc_2.PNG (37.45 KiB) Viewed 8645 times

Thanks for help!

Regards

[Hondata]

I did not mean the race calibration, but the VE (speed/density) tables on the regular calibration.

Your dead times are a little low. I use 1150 us @ 12V and 750 us @ 16V. Be aware that changing this will change the fuel, especially at low injector openings.

Then change the 'injector flow for fuel economy' number. A higher number will give a higher fuel consumption number, so increase it until your dash is correct.

[R-12914]

@typer86:

Any news about this?

[typer86]

Yes I have some news:

I got a list from RC Engineering for the SH4-750 fuel injecotrs.

Fuel Pressure (psi)
The voltage starts @ 9.0 and ends by 16.0 V:
I configured the following:

10V: 1207
12V: 952
16V: 658

In the list I can not find any entries for 6 and 8 Volts.... 9V is the lowest value.

I will try your settings I keep u up to date

[R-12914]

Do you mean this one?:

RC750cc.jpg (163.19 KiB) Viewed 8600 times

You can also change the Voltage in Flashpro Manager!

BTW: Ich bin Deutscher, ich denke du auch! ;)

[typer86]

Yes I have the same list received.


Ps: Ja wir kennen uns schon :-) kommen beide aus Bayern ^^

[typer86]

Update:

I tested now the following settings without any better results. The fuel gauge displays always 3 L/100 km in normal driving. Normally it must displays min 6 L/100 km.

Current configuration:

Fuel_calc_3.PNG (29.17 KiB) Viewed 8582 times

Note:
After edit the opening timings, now if the K20 engine is cold, in low rpm the engine is jerking a little bit in first minutes of driving.

I don't know what I can do as next. I am happy, for any ideas to fix it.

Regards

[Spunkster]

Do not use a race calibration and expect the fuel gauge to read correctly. You should use an AFM calibration and just enable MAP based tuning inside that calibration.

[typer86]

Do not use a race calibration and expect the fuel gauge to read correctly. You should use an AFM calibration and just enable MAP based tuning inside that calibration.

Hi Spunkster,

Yes my cal is a AFM calibration. I will tomorrow post my map of my car. I hope you will find the final switch that the fuel gauge works correct.

I am very happy if you help me to find the solution.

Ps: I think I am not alone of this problem many owners of a supercharged fn2 have the same issue. But nobody tried to find a solution.

Regards

[typer86]

Hondata, please be reminded that we are waiting for a understandable supercharged FN2 cal with lager injecotrs from RC (750cc).


Edit:
I found in your manual the following setting and the same values are set in stock engine without supercharger/turbo:

Throttle Flow

In some situations the ECU will need to know the air flow past the throttle body for a certain throttle opening.

Throttle_flow.PNG (5.6 KiB) Viewed 8531 times

throttle-flow
This table only needs to be altered for larger than stock throttle bodies.

If I double the flow (l/min) from default to this what is the result?

Throttle_flow_x2.PNG (5.41 KiB) Viewed 8531 times

The supercharger will increase the air consumtion (flow). Why only this value must be increased if a lager throttle body is mounted?
Thats confusing!

Maybe if this setting will be adjusted the fuel calc and the current fuel L/100km will be corrected?
Any example value settings for Supercharger / Turbo are welcome.

Thanks for answering.

Regards,

[typer86]

For calculating the corrected air flow I found the following interessting site:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

In my car is:
> Pulley: 110mm

C30-94_character.PNG (78.84 KiB) Viewed 8506 times

In the screenshot you will see the technical air flow / pressure ration schematic of our Rotrex compressor - C30-94 which are most used in FN2's.

The full PDF doc you can download here: http://www.rotrex.com/media/7df7470f-60 ... 0Range_pdf

rotrex_technical_datasheet_C30-94.PNG (111.01 KiB) Viewed 8508 times

How I must calculate the correct Throttle flow vs opening time?

[Hondata]

Is it blowing or sucking through the throttle body? What throttle body are you using?

[R-12914]

Is it blowing or sucking through the throttle body? What throttle body are you using?

The Supercharger is after the throttle body (without a blowoff valve!)
We have the stock throttle body from the FN2!