Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the FN2 European Civic Type R
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R-12914
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Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by R-12914 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:43 pm

I run a Rotrex supercharged Civic TypeR FN2 with a MAP-Cal made by VitViper!

My concern is as follows:
Is it possible and that would be what I want, that Hondata make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?
If i accelerate/decelerate roughly similar to the option "1st gear throttle dampening", but not like "Overrun fuel cut delay" or "Revhang"!

For example:
If i use this Map, i have the phenomenon particularly in the city, the trottle responding is jerky.

or

If i use my cruise control, set a speed and go down from the accelerator, then the throttlebody is closing and reopens again to maintain the speed where i set before.
This is very jerky and a bit annoying.


I can only compensate it, if i set the speed, even stay awhile on the accelerator and then go slowly down from the the accelerator.
The problem is especially descriptions then very strong, when I go uphill/downhill and set a speed with cruise control.

A question in passing:
Is the function " 1st gear throttle dampening" actually available on CTR FN2 Maps?

I think my problem you can only fix, if you at every gas blow (no matter how fast and jerky it is) the throttle opening is delayed, so can be opened slowly.
This applies mutatis mutandis for when I take the foot off the accelerator!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

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Hondata
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by Hondata » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:16 pm

What calibration are you using? The normal calibration or the race?
Hondata

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R-12914
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by R-12914 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:35 pm

Hondata wrote:What calibration are you using? The normal calibration or the race?
I use the Race (MAP-Calibration)!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

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Hondata
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by Hondata » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:14 pm

Do not expect every feature to work perfectly when using a race calibration. eg cruise control is not something useful in a race car.
The option to remove the 1st gear throttle dampening is available on the FN2 calibration.
Hondata

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R-12914
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by R-12914 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:06 pm

But is it in principle possible to install my desire option?
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

User avatar
Hondata
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Location: Torrance, CA
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by Hondata » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:17 am

My translation of your posts, based on the information provided, is:
Q: I am not happy with the throttle smoothness and cruise control in a supercharged FN2 using the race calibration.
A: Use the FN2 calibration, not the race calibration.
If you're asking something else, then clarify your questions and provide more information.
Hondata

nunoctr
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by nunoctr » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:26 am

I can add a litle more.
I have used race, Afm with map fuel and full AFM cals in my Fn2. NA and rotrex supercharged

The full Map cal is very jerky and the throttle is not smooth at all.
The AFM with Map fuel is a little better.
The full AFM is the best one.

Every cal had the fuel tuned and the ignition/cams the same (all NA the same and then when rotrex all the same)

This is why I only run full AFM cals on my Fn2.

BUT
there is something different, as is not as smooth as stock.

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R-12914
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by R-12914 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:00 pm

Hondata wrote:My translation of your posts, based on the information provided, is:
Q: I am not happy with the throttle smoothness and cruise control in a supercharged FN2 using the race calibration.
A: Use the FN2 calibration, not the race calibration.
If you're asking something else, then clarify your questions and provide more information.
To understand:

In Flashpro-Manager we have the feature "1st gear throttle dampening" ->"The standard ECU will slow the throttle opening when in first gear with the vehicle moving, which may result in a jerk once the throttle opens fully".

It is principle possible, to install this feature also for gears 1-6 (possibly reverse gear) installed?

This I want to know first of all!

nunoctr wrote:I can add a litle more.
I have used race, Afm with map fuel and full AFM cals in my Fn2. NA and rotrex supercharged

The full Map cal is very jerky and the throttle is not smooth at all.
The AFM with Map fuel is a little better.
The full AFM is the best one.

Every cal had the fuel tuned and the ignition/cams the same (all NA the same and then when rotrex all the same)

This is why I only run full AFM cals on my Fn2.

BUT
there is something different, as is not as smooth as stock.
Nuno and Hondata,

if i use my tuned AFM-Map with importet fuel tables of my MAP-Cal, is this ok, or I have to tune new my MAF-Cal with the MAP-fuel tables?

Since i have installed my Exedy stage 1 clutch, when I push the clutch and drive very slowly (role), than the engine speed goes under idle speed and than the engine goes off.

This phenomenon I have only been the sport clutch and only if i use a MAF-Cal in conjunction with the supercharger!

What do you think about that?
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

typer86
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by typer86 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:02 am

R-12914 wrote:
Nuno and Hondata,

if i use my tuned AFM-Map with importet fuel tables of my MAP-Cal, is this ok, or I have to tune new my MAF-Cal with the MAP-fuel tables?

Since i have installed my Exedy stage 1 clutch, when I push the clutch and drive very slowly (role), than the engine speed goes under idle speed and than the engine goes off.

This phenomenon I have only been the sport clutch and only if i use a MAF-Cal in conjunction with the supercharger!

What do you think about that?
My2cents:

In my FN2 I have installed the Exedy Stage 1 clutch too - (it was installed before upgrading the car with the rotrex kit).
But this is not necessary.

I had the same issue like you to find the best settings for my car. In my case I had the option deactivated (untick) in Hondata:
> Closed loop parameters:
>> Secondary oxygen sensor enabled (was disabled)

Fuel Trim
> AF learned value min: 0
> AF learned value max: 0

The same settings was set in Nunos MAF calibration.

And maybe the values of the Wideband lambda option are not correct. (I am not 100% sure if this setting is responsible for the engine goes off.)

Did you modified your calibration after changing of the clutchkit from exedy?

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R-12914
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Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by R-12914 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:20 am

typer86 wrote:
R-12914 wrote: My2cents:

In my FN2 I have installed the Exedy Stage 1 clutch too - (it was installed before upgrading the car with the rotrex kit).
But this is not necessary.

I had the same issue like you to find the best settings for my car. In my case I had the option deactivated (untick) in Hondata:
> Closed loop parameters:
>> Secondary oxygen sensor enabled (was disabled)

Fuel Trim
> AF learned value min: 0
> AF learned value max: 0

The same settings was set in Nunos AFM calibration.

And maybe the values of the Wideband lambda option are not correct. (I am not 100% sure if this setting is responsible for the engine goes off.)

Did you modified your calibration after changing of the clutchkit from exedy?
Here in Germany, we must note that we retain the emission levels!
No, the Map is the same before / after!

With the MAP-Cal I have about 1 liter less fuel consumption with the same driving style and the power/the torque is higher.
Seen overall, the performance and power delivery is better / higher!

@ Jerome and Nuno:
What value do you put into the "Long term fuel trim min/max" parameters under "Closed Loop"?
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

typer86
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Is it possible to make a smoother throttlebody opening/closing?

Post by typer86 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:30 am

Here in Germany, we must note that we retain the emission levels!
No, the Map is the same before / after!

With the MAP-Cal I have about 1 liter less fuel consumption with the same driving style and the power/the torque is higher.
Seen overall, the performance and power delivery is better / higher!
Yes I know that with the emission level. These settings was for testing only. Now with enabled second oxy and the AF parameters are filled in correcly all good.
I adjusted the ignition and switch the VTC setting from "Zero ..." to "Use VTC tables..." so I have no boost lag during acceleration because if you leave the gas pedal for acceleration the cam angle goes to 0° and it takes few milisec after return to 30 / 50° and you have a lag although the boost pressure from the rotrex charger is still present.

Try it in your MAP / MAF and you will see it is better to drive. But it will not fix your problem with the engine goes off.
@ Jerome and Nuno:
What value do you put into the "Long term fuel trim min/max" parameters under "Closed Loop"?
lampda.PNG
lampda.PNG (21.74 KiB) Viewed 5461 times
long_term_fuel.PNG
long_term_fuel.PNG (22.97 KiB) Viewed 5461 times
I hope it helps

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