Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the FN2 European Civic Type R
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typer86
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Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:57 pm

Hi Hondata,

I have tested increased values of the Overrun injector restart to avoid fast idle drop and oscillating below the target idle Speed.
In different cases if the A/C kicks in, and I press the clutch the idle Speed is dropping below the targeted idle Speed...

If the values increased in the warm ECT section, the engine idle goes down slowly (yeeeahh this is what I would like to archieve) but it does not stop at the target idle Speed.... It will be oscilating too... :-/ It is very annoying and hard to fix...
overrun_injector.png
overrun_injector.png (12.55 KiB) Viewed 4663 times
My calibration use the VE tables all the time - AFM sensor is not in use.
I will sent you the datalog and the current calibration at the end of the day so you can check it better.

High overrun injector restart rpm values are not supported? Why this is an issue in warm ECT section?

BR

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Hondata
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by Hondata » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:58 am

First your injector dead times need to be correct for a good idle. Next, block the port to the idle valve and check the rpm drops to 450 rpm or less when hot. If not, there are vacuum leaks and the idle valve will be running outside normal operation. Finally, clean the idle valve. Also be aware that after reflashing the idle learn can take a day or so to complete.
Hondata

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R-12914
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by R-12914 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:22 am

In this case, it's a FN2/K20Z4, which do not have a idle valve!
The idle is only controlled by the ECU at the FN2!

Is there also a solution for this?
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.4.0
Firmware: 167

typer86
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:46 am

Hondata can you post a picture of the idle valve? I never seen this before on the fn2.

I am not sure if the k20z4 have the valve like the k20z3 or k20a

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Hondata
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by Hondata » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:21 pm

Sorry, my mistake, I was confused with the EP3 Type R.

Where is the supplied datalog is the problem? I don't see the rpm below 850 and also very little idling.
Hondata

typer86
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:44 pm

Last datalog (5.05-2) check the last 5 min. you can see it drops down below 850rpm. I pressed the clutch few times to show the issue.

I will mark the issue in log tomorrow for you and upload again.

I hope it could be fixed ...

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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by Hondata » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:57 pm

It is not the overrun cutoff. It is because the mixture is very rich when the clutch is put in (hard to tell from the datalog what the clutch position might be). I know you've used our DW800 settings but I think the dead times might be too low.
Hondata

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R-12914
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by R-12914 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:58 am

Hi Hondata,

i have a similar problem on FN2 with Rotrex S/C and ASNU-Injectors (map & log i have send to you via email).
I have marked in the log, where I started pushing the clutch and where I have stopped pushing the clutch.

You can see, the rpms jumps up and down, while the clutch is permanently pressed!

Whats the issue?
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.4.0
Firmware: 167

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Hondata
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by Hondata » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:45 am

Dead times look low (1.05ms @ 14V for 750cc), and the MAP takes some time to fall once the throttle is shut, but the main problem is closed loop oscillation. This is from one or more of o2 sensor placement, o2 sensor condition, injector dead times, injector spray pattern, exhaust temperature, fuel tables.
Note that at the 4 minute mark at regular idle the trims are fairly negative (-15% or so). I'd start there, and also look at the dead times.
Hondata

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R-12914
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by R-12914 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:01 pm

2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.4.0
Firmware: 167

typer86
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:26 pm

Hmm interesting ...
How much % you would like to increase the timings of the DW and ASNU setup?
5%? What is your experience?

Thanks for your answer

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R-12914
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by R-12914 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:14 am

Hondata wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:45 am
Dead times look low (1.05ms @ 14V for 750cc), and the MAP takes some time to fall once the throttle is shut, but the main problem is closed loop oscillation. This is from one or more of o2 sensor placement, o2 sensor condition, injector dead times, injector spray pattern, exhaust temperature, fuel tables.
Note that at the 4 minute mark at regular idle the trims are fairly negative (-15% or so). I'd start there, and also look at the dead times.
Hondata,

the primary O2-sensor is new.
MAP-sensor and clutch-switch are checked and also ok (same issue with stock map-sensor).

The DT (comes from ASNU) are runs perfect with a HYBRID-cal, but not on this MAP-cal.
The Injectors are as good as new.
I have also tested to import the fuel-tables and ignition-tables (low) of my HYBRID-cal, but no differences.
I have also tested higher DT, but also no differences.

My HYBRID-cal with the same tables/sensors runs very good, but only the MAP-cal is terrible!

How can I make changes, if I can not read or display values in the rows/columns?
It is necessary to tune the idle correct!

Look here (red marked is empty, green marked -also empty- is the current selection or the current range!):
Unbenannt.JPG
Unbenannt.JPG (485.51 KiB) Viewed 4510 times
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.4.0
Firmware: 167

typer86
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:21 am

Hi Hondata,

I have checked today my calibration with the activated Feature: Throttle > Overrun throttle opening enabled
Any known issues with this Option?

It Looks like if the Option is enabled the engine is running approx. 2% lean and the Tpedal tipin is jerky.
I will test the same calibration again without the Option.

typer86
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by typer86 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:40 am

@ Hondata did you seen my last email? I have attached the calibration and commented datalogs.

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Hondata
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Re: Oscillating idle - overrun injector restart rpm (recover)

Post by Hondata » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:00 am

Yes. I do not believe there is a fault with the software. It is from the combination of parts you have and the tuning.
Hondata

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