WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2009 (US, UK, Asia) S2000
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shind3
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WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by shind3 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:32 pm

Because the knock ignition limits low & high are set to 100!!!

This results in running about 10 to 16 degrees MORE timing than stock at high load and low RPM. This is absolutely nuts.
Image

This results in massive audible detonation. Hopefully Hondata can explain why the map is like this.

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Hondata
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Re: WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by Hondata » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:42 pm

Do you have a toda header?

The calibration was dyno tuned on 91 octane fuel. Setting the knock ignition limit high effectively disables the retard without knock ECU feature. Teh ignition differences are minimal on the high cam (about 2.5 degrees more at 8500 rpm) and quite a lot less retard on the low cam below 2700 rpm, and about 2-4 degrees less retard on the low cam over 2700 rpm.

This reflects the difference from the stock to toda header.
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shind3
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Re: WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by shind3 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:12 pm

I don't have a Toda header.

Do you think a Toda header requires 10 to 16 degrees more timing at low RPM high load compared to a Mugen header? A 'couple' degrees I can understand but not 10+ degrees. Compare the timing maps between the two. Above 2700 RPM the timing differences seem reasonable enough for hardware changes so I'm not talking about the differences there. While WOT at 2700 RPM, the Mugen header map will run about 9-10 degrees as opposed to about 21 degrees for the Toda header map...

What is likely that during your dyno tuning, you did not start the pull below 2700RPM to check behavior there. Going WOT below 2700RPM can happen when pulling away from a stoplight briskly and that is when the Toda map will knock like crazy. It seems like a really bad idea to not adjust the primary timing map accordingly even if you did want to employ the slightly unorthodox strategy of setting all "ignition limits" really high. So set the ignition limits really high but remove the equivalent amount of timing from the primary timing map.

Thoughts?

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Re: WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by Hondata » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:36 pm

It is not 'added timing' as much as 'less retard'. The header does make a big difference, but there also is going to a variance from vehicle to vehicle depending on the exact setup. In this case we could add a lot of timing down low. You'll also see that VTEC is low (4100 rpm), which is a good indicator of how well the exhaust system is working.

The calibration was tuned at WOT below 2700 rpm; there's no reason not to.
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Re: WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by Timmigrant » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:51 pm

The Toda tune knocked badly at high load / low rpm on my car as well. I'm running stock header though. For what it's worth the tuner I worked with set my VTEC crossover to 3,800 rpm, and car seems to make good power down low. I too was surprised by the amount of knock with the Toda tune. All others run great on my car.

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Re: WARNING: Hondata Toda map audibly knocks at high load & low RPM

Post by Hondata » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:28 pm

The calibration was made for a Toda header. We never even tested the calibration with a stock header, and certainly did not design it to work with one. It requires a Toda header. End of story.
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