which motor to use ?

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kp
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which motor to use ?

Post by kp » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:10 am

i was just wondering which type of motor to build.. i was thinking bout a LS block with a B16 head.. but people tell me to use a B20 block with a B18C1or5 head.. im just trying to find out what would be the best to build.. by the way the motrs going in to a 91 civic hatch..

DaX
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Post by DaX » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:05 am

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm a fan of the LS. Are you building this motor for boost? Actually, I think my next motor I build will be a single cam.

sleepdc2r
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motor to use

Post by sleepdc2r » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:58 am

the motor you use is all base on taste and money as well but a very good combo is the gsr head on a b20buttom a clean 2.0 displacement on a type r spec motor and you should face no reliablity issuses those both the head and buttom are very easy to find in junk yards and i would suggest using a hondata ecu that would be awesome. good luck with the process 8)

DaX
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Re: motor to use

Post by DaX » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:44 am

sleepdc2r wrote:the motor you use is all base on taste and money as well but a very good combo is the gsr head on a b20buttom a clean 2.0 displacement on a type r spec motor and you should face no reliablity issuses those both the head and buttom are very easy to find in junk yards and i would suggest using a hondata ecu that would be awesome. good luck with the process 8)
I wish those two things were plentiful in junkyards in Georgia. Maybe I should come to Kansas. Actually, the B20 bottom end is not good for boosting unless you are going to sleeve it immediately, and I still would probably use a different bottom end anyway. The cylinder walls are just too thin to handle more than a little boost in stock trim.

sleepdc2r
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b20 buttom end

Post by sleepdc2r » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:38 am

well dax kansas is good for only that junkyards and no clean air act here no cats. no issuses with the police okay no back to the post

of course to sleev the block if your going to run boost you need to bluid the whole thing knife edge the crank the b20 buttom is great for boost or supercharge and i found a b20 butoom with 45000 miles for 500dollars no you can make a beautiful engine set up and quote that.. yeah :twisted:

DaX
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Post by DaX » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:21 am

As I said, if you sleeve the B20, you shouldn't have an issue. Knife edging the crank...well, that's a little too much, especially for a boosted application. Knife edging a Honda crank really yields little results, and the cost is high. The use of a crank scrape or a knife edged crank is an old muscle car trick, and really isn't necessary in a Honda engine because of the way Honda designed the block / windage setup. A micropolished crank is about as far as I'd be willing to go.

If you find the block for a deal, go for it. My opinion on the B20 is exactly that, an opinion.

sleepdc2r
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knife edging

Post by sleepdc2r » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:29 pm

the crank in the b20 is to weak for the compression and most people say that the first problem with that set up is the crank so why not get a new and knife edge it works look into it

DaX
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Post by DaX » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:04 pm

What? Where do you get your info? OEM cranks are good for insane HP when properly balanced. Your rods and pistons are going to take a shit on you WAY before the crank will.

sleepdc2r
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Post by sleepdc2r » Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:38 pm

the b20 crank is not set up for high compression like b18c check the compression on the the b20 stock and the how it would preform under higher compression like at the same number as a type r one of my friends did the b20 on a type r head and the first thing he did was change the crank even super street did a articl on a civic hatch that did the frankenstein build and said the very same thing it is the safe thing to do for boost

DaX
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Post by DaX » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:53 am

Ok, in an attempt to get to the bottom of this [I'm so curious about these things] I spoke with Earl Laskey, of Laskey Racing. I told him about our discussion.

This is his reply:

"The B20 and B18a/b cranks, as far as i know, are the same. They all use the same main, rod and thrust bearings. Honda has the reputation to keep using the same parts when they work properly. It does not make sense that they would spend time and money designing a new crank for the b20 just to be weaker while using the same sizing as the b18a.
The b20 blocks are much weaker in the cylinder wall area and normally fail quickly under boost with stock sleeves."


I think you may be confusing weak cylinders with a weak crank. The B20 has the same stroke as the B18A/B, so the additional 0.2L of displacement comes from bore size. Since the bore is larger, the cylinder walls are weaker, and these will fail under high compression or boost.

sleepdc2r
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8 years old

Post by sleepdc2r » Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:27 am

ok dax your source said he "thought" they were the same and the may be the same but for what this person whats to do to there car this may be the best protection for high boost buttom for this whole topic is that people that i work with will have been working on hondas for 13 years so if you are good at math you were 8 years old when they started they have the fastest civic in kansas so i do not really care who you sourced to find people to agree with you i really would not care to waste the time to find 5 people for every one you found to agree with me just go out and talk to people and ask if they changed the crank who has done the b20 frankenstein they will tell you and if they dont the are foolish this is the right way for high boost

DaX
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Post by DaX » Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:01 am

I guess Earl Laskey and Dan Benson just don't know shit about Hondas then huh?

If you want to recommend changing the crank, that's fine...it's not my motor. But it's a waste of money, unless you're going to be bruising 900WHP.

I think I will do just that...go ask folks who have had a B20VTEC setup...all the ones I've talked to so far have not.

sleepdc2r
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Post by sleepdc2r » Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:39 pm

i never said that Earl laskey and Dan benson knew anything of the sort....
also you freinds that did the frankenstein are dumb if they did not cange it . it is like changing an oil pump with a turbo kit you don need to do it but it is insuring that the motor would work all the time so lets get down to the brass tacks i am not dumb i do not do stuipd things like not checking my tires and running my car into shit i am not trying to build a cheap car by using talon parts i really your trying to put words in my mouth all i am saying in best intrest the crank should be changed yeah the b20 frankenstein your talking about is mostly likely is the b16 headand b20 i am talking the real way with a gsr or type r :twisted:

DaX
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Post by DaX » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:47 pm

And all I'm saying is I couldn't disagree with you more.

All the people I know running B20VTEC's are using GSR heads. And I'm curious as to what's the difference if they do use a B16 head? B16 heads and B18C5 heads are the same chunk of metal with different internals. Besides redline, cams, and quality of valvetrain, I don't see what the difference is.

sleepdc2r
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waste

Post by sleepdc2r » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:55 pm

all i am saying if your going to do something do it right not half ass it



"B16 heads and B18C5 heads are the same chunk of metal with different internals. Besides redline, cams, and quality of valvetrain" well your just showing how smart you are i would watch legend of the type r the dvd explains all the differnces it is made by the people at best motoring the people who show the battles ae86 vs bnr33 those people know what they are talking about. the first thing is the head on the b18c5 is that all the way up to 98 the heads were port and polished by hand so end the end they are the same because the both start with a b and they go into hondas so i am saying build it right or dont cry about how money is a factor it is not wasted money are race seats a waste of money? no it is all safety for you and your car oh i am paid to drive my car are you?
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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