2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

2012+ US/Canadian Civic Si / 2013+ ILX
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CryptoCraig
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2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Hey,

I am new to tuning, watched a few videos on YouTube on how to tune and read quite a bit of the help file that comes with the Hondata Flashpro. I've flashed my ECU to a modified Hondata reflash, then with the PRL intake that comes with the Hondata software, which I also was modifying. I've made up my mind to use the reflash calibration as opposed to the one with the intake.

I've modified the reflash some so that I don't lose power at around 5k RPM with adjusting the V-TEC RPM window. If anyone could help in tuning the car further, that would be awesome! The whole reason I picked up the Hondata Flashpro is because of my new job, which I LOVE, is about 50 miles each way. So, I wanted to possibly squeeze out more gas mileage, but also to increase the performance. I expected that I would need to have 2 calibrations, one for each set-up.

I will attach the calibration that I've tweaked some and provide some datalogs tomorrow. I did notice it had one knock during one of the logs with this particular calibration, probably because of my driving style. This is the reason I chose to go with the reflash, since it only showed one knock instead of having multiple knocks with the other calibration.

It would be cool to get the calibration designed to save on gas mileage completed first, hopefully by the end of the month as I am filling up more than every 3 days. But if both can be worked on with having to perform certain tasks, like a WOT pull in 3rd gear, I could easily do the pull once the calibration is ready to do so. I can provide datalogs specific to the drive I make everyday. I'm pretty sure that I could datalog the entire trip to and from my workplace with just using the onboard memory on the FlashPro device.
Attachments
Hondata Civic Reflash, v4.fpcal
(19.36 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by EFICU »

Yeah some datalogs would show you how things are looking. Having the big tube intake like the Skunk, they need to be tuned speed density since the diameter of the tune skews the MAF reading. It might run okay, but the fuel trims are likely working very hard to keep the target AFR close. The calibration you posted is running the MAF sensor, which is most likely not the best route moving forward with the Skunk2 intake. You would want to look into transitioning to a speed density strategy moving forward.

You need to do some datalogging to find an optimal RPM engagement for vtec. Ultimately how it feels in the car is the most important thing, but gathering data and tuning the tables will help you find the RPM and cam angle mapping that works best so that the crossover fuel demand is the same or higher on the high cam at vtec.

You shouldn't need two calibrations to meet your goals, you just have to be realistic about your goals. On your 50 mile drive, how fast are you going and are you using cruise control? If you're doing 80mph and varying speed and RPM with your foot, you won't get the fuel mileage you are hoping for most likely. If you're running 65-70mph on flat highways with the cruise control on, then you should get pretty good mileage. If you want to try to make two calibrations you can, finding the right cam angle for a fuel mileage tune would be tough to do, but all depends on how much testing and time you want to spend on it. EPA rating is 31mpg highway, what is your goal for highway mileage would you say?

The knock you're seeing is easy to remove. Just look into transitioning to a speed density strategy moving forward to accommodate the intake. Both calibrations you tried were MAF based, so I would imagine transitioning to a speed density tune would make it run and drive a lot smoother and allow you to properly tune the fuel tables.

When you make a datalog with the current calibration, shoot for twenty minutes in length and don't get too aggressive with the driving. I would be curious to see how the fueling looks using the MAF sensor. Past experience would say it's not reading properly, but I could be wrong.
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CryptoCraig
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

I have 2 datalogs that I took on the way to and from work. Had to split them in half to get them to fit within the 10MB requirement. Datalog_a1 is city and Datalog_a2 is mostly interstate. These are on the way to work. I will post shortly after with the ones on the way home.

I was able to get just above 35MPG on the way home from work today! Very easily could have been more. My goal would be to get 10% better MPG from what I was getting with just upgrading to the CAI, which is overall between 31-32. So, I would like to push it up above the 35MPG consistently. On the interstate, I drive about as fast as the next guy where I live -- pretty fast.

The knocks I'm seeing is very worrisome and I planned on doing datalogging before I flashed the ECU. I can't say why I didn't, it just happened that way I guess. For now, the knock is number 1 focus.

As you suggested that it is not reading properly, is what it seems. I really need to get the knock worked out ASAP. Tomorrow, I will leave for work with plenty of time to get there and be on the safe-side. Really, would like to flash it back to stock honestly, if you see this before 8am tomorrow and see it needs to be flashed back to stock, please let me know.

Here are the datalogs... Not too aggressive, I mean, how could it with an average of over 35MPG? Lol!

Your help is greatly appreciated, and if we could get it to satisfactory, I would like pay it back to you somehow.
Attachments
datalog_a2.fpdl
interstate
(4.68 MiB) Downloaded 52 times
datalog_a1.fpdl
city
(3.89 MiB) Downloaded 51 times
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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CryptoCraig
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Here are the datalogs on the way home...

I'm googling speed based tunes right now.
Attachments
datalog_b2.fpdl
mixed driving
(2.33 MiB) Downloaded 51 times
datalog_b1.fpdl
mixed driving
(5.21 MiB) Downloaded 48 times
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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CryptoCraig
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

EFICU wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:47 pm Yeah some datalogs would show you how things are looking. Having the big tube intake like the Skunk, they need to be tuned speed density since the diameter of the tune skews the MAF reading. It might run okay, but the fuel trims are likely working very hard to keep the target AFR close. The calibration you posted is running the MAF sensor, which is most likely not the best route moving forward with the Skunk2 intake. You would want to look into transitioning to a speed density strategy moving forward.
This morning I took the stock calibration (I think) and modified it to speed density. Altered a few things. And the car stalled shortly after starting. Reved up to 1500 RPMs (normal) then dropped to right at 1000 RPM and fell below 700.... 🤔

Added 10% fuel trim to the box where it'll trim when starting, and nearly the same thing. I was able to get it running by lightly pressing the accelerator. Once the ECT warmed up, the idle wasn't great, but was good enough to drive (so I thought, lol). Stalled right as I was trying to go forward after backing out of the driveway, blocking the road. 🤣 Luckily, after some friendly horn presses from the neighbors, it started right up and I drove it right back into the garage.

Well, afterwards, I pulled up some datalogs that I made with the Hondata Reflash calibration and was able to work on fixing about half of the knock. Tonight I plan on getting it knock-free, hopefully. But still with a MAF based tune 😔.

How would you start a speed density tune? Can I just use the cal that I'm working with now, then switch it to speed denaity, then use the datalogs to modify the fuel tables?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by EFICU »

CryptoCraig wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:34 pm I have 2 datalogs that I took on the way to and from work. Had to split them in half to get them to fit within the 10MB requirement. Datalog_a1 is city and Datalog_a2 is mostly interstate. These are on the way to work. I will post shortly after with the ones on the way home.

I was able to get just above 35MPG on the way home from work today! Very easily could have been more. My goal would be to get 10% better MPG from what I was getting with just upgrading to the CAI, which is overall between 31-32. So, I would like to push it up above the 35MPG consistently. On the interstate, I drive about as fast as the next guy where I live -- pretty fast.

The knocks I'm seeing is very worrisome and I planned on doing datalogging before I flashed the ECU. I can't say why I didn't, it just happened that way I guess. For now, the knock is number 1 focus.

As you suggested that it is not reading properly, is what it seems. I really need to get the knock worked out ASAP. Tomorrow, I will leave for work with plenty of time to get there and be on the safe-side. Really, would like to flash it back to stock honestly, if you see this before 8am tomorrow and see it needs to be flashed back to stock, please let me know.

Here are the datalogs... Not too aggressive, I mean, how could it with an average of over 35MPG? Lol!

Your help is greatly appreciated, and if we could get it to satisfactory, I would like pay it back to you somehow.
Sorry man, I didn't see your posts because I forgot to subscribe to this thread when I replied the other day...

Yeah the trims are working very hard in both the MAF configuration and the speed density in looking at the datalogs. The MAF configuration is working hard because the MAF sensor isn't getting a good reading due to the Skunk intake size. The speed density one the trims are working even harder because the fuel tables aren't tuned at all for fuel delivery. Either way, right now both calibration are very far off for their own reasons.

The knock you're having is easily removed as I stated before, so don't sweat that at all right now. I think the worst datalog you had showed 13 knock or something, that's not the end of the world. When the knock is consistently rising in one area or multiple areas, that is when you want to be concerned. A few scattered here and there isn't anything to worry about.

For these cars, I have my own base calibrations I've put together and tune these cars. We can transition you to those files and begin to tune it if you want. I let you sort of ride with suggestions in the beginning as is seemed like you were interested in doing it yourself, but if you want me to help you with it just let me know.

Is the only mod right now the Skunk intake? Do you have more mods planned in the near future?

I ask if you have more mods planned as there are two ways to tune these, the proper way and a shorter way. If you have more mods planned soon we can tune it the quicker way for now, then spend more time on it when you have all your mods in the near future. The proper way takes roughly 10-12 revisions to get them dialed, the quicker way we can do in maybe 4-8. Let me know what you think and what your future plans are for the car.
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CryptoCraig
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Hey, no worries man! I love to learn new stuff, and this is definitely new. Lol!

I would like to go the speed density route, since the Skunk2 CAI is causing the ECU to be overworked. However, I need a cal that I can at least start the vehicle and to where it doesn't stall. Then, I wouldn't mind uploading some datalogs of the basemaps. Maybe you could give me suggestions at what I should be looking at tuning first? Or if something is way off, post a new cal for me to datalog?

Thanks again for helping me. I love doing new stuff and learning... Just not at the cost of damaging a vehicle. Lol! I was flipping out seeing those knocks! Lol!

I just uploaded a newly tuned Reflash cal, that I think will be better than the previous. I'll upload that one later with some datalogs as well, for the community.
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by EFICU »

No problem, here is a calibration for you to get started with and be in the ballpark. Make a twenty minute datalog with it as soon as you can after uploading it. On the drive, make one wide open throttle (WOT) pull in third gear from 2500-7500 rpm so we can also see WOT fueling. I looked at the knock you had in your other datalogs, all the knock were pretty much in 6th gear while cruising, my calibrations have less ignition in those areas of knock so we will see how it looks. We'll see how it all looks in the next datalog. We can get it plenty safe with in one or two revisions and then you can decide how you want to move forward and have me help you more, or take it on your own.

I set vtec at 4600 for this one, we'll see how the data looks and what you think of the feel. We can always move it up to 5000 like you had it, but see what you think with it at 4600 and we'll compare your feelings in the car with the data.
CryptoCraig.SD.Rev01 (Blended)(Vtec4600).fpcal
(22.98 KiB) Downloaded 53 times
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Thanks EFICU!

I will download it now and try to go out tonight and datalog a little. It was lightly snowing earlier, so I am not sure if I'll be able to do a WOT pull of that caliber, but I'll try to get full-throttle for at least some length of time. Does it make a difference when you are tuning it if it is uphill, level or downhill when the WOT pull occurs? Just curious. Also, any way to compensate if it were up or downhill?

I have been editing the tables on the MAF calibration and will upload it soon. It seems to be doing much better.

There are no plans to do any other major performance mods to the vehicle (unless you think I could get it to 40MPG! LOL).

I'm the person that when I do something, I want to do it right. It's posted everywhere I've looked that speed density is the way to go when tuning. So, thank you for providing the first speed density calibration and would absolutely love for you to check out the datalogs to revise it the first few logs!

I have to say, was kind of worried about getting the Hondata FlashPro at first, but seeing there is so much data in the application's help file and a huge community online I am glad I bought it. Almost everyone of my friends were like "get the exhaust system first". That would have been a whole lot more of a headache installing and not knowing if I'll like everything about it (sound, performance, etc.). With the Flashpro, I can get every ounce of power out of what's installed. Just made more sense to me.
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by EFICU »

Yeah no problem, be careful in the snow. Even if you can't get a WOT pull, some simple driving is enough to get some data for the part throttle driving. For part throttle tuning, any type of terrain is fine as in everyday driving you will be going up and down hills. For WOT tuning, it doesn't matter too much either, just don't being going WOT up an obvious mountain road, also don't be doing WOT pull down said mountain road. Other than that, any type of city road or open road is fine, don't get caught up in worrying about that stuff too much. That's the beauty of e-tuning, we get to tune it for normal roads you use all the time.

I would think you would have a difficult time getting the MAF scaling as good as speed density as the reading from the MAF is so skewed, but you can keep trying if you want it's totally up to you. Where you will really run into problems using the MAF is for WOT fueling. If you decide if you want to run a MAF tune, I would at least recommend switching to a hybrid tune where it runs the MAP sensor for WOT fueling at least. That will make things a lot easier for you.

You can probably get close to 37mpg, but you have to go 65mph and use cruise control on the highway. I noticed in your other datalog you weren't using cruise control, so that will cause a reduction in mpg. It's tough to get too much better than OEM, but tightening up fuel trims and what not helps a little but. The stock tune has to cover every 2014-2015 Civic Si they sell, where on your car you can tighten up the fuel trims to get it as good as possible.

Yeah speed density (SD) is the way to go with your intake package. It's been that way since the big tube intakes came out over a decade ago, the speed density strategy is the best for the big tube intakes. If you have a stock intake, then I recommend a hybrid calibration like I reference above. The MAF works great in stock form, but with the huge intake pipes they just don't read well. But yes, I would highly recommend going SD moving forward.

You will get more power from a FlashPro alone and a proper tune than any exhaust system out there without a tune. Finding the right cam angle mapping and getting the fuel/ignition dialed will give you more physical performance and power than any exhaust system. The exhaust system makes you think it's faster through audible sound. With these cars, it's what you can do through the tune with a free flowing exhaust that allows you to take advantage of the new exhaust. You did the right thing by getting the FlashPro first, it's for sure the best bang for the buck, that and you can get everything dialed and build a safe tune as opposed to driving around with random parts not knowing what your AFR is like. Sort of like right now, you would be driving around with the Skunk intake with really bad fuel trims and perhaps unsafe WOT fueling. So the FlashPro should be the first mod for these cars, you can get a lot of performance in stock trim, then build your mods while tweaking the tune for them. Tell your friends to follow your strategy, haha.

We will see how the datalog looks when you make it.
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Here are the datalogs... Was harder to shift (very jumpy), and after starting the engine the idle was jumpy at first. The smaller file might show the starting of the engine, not sure if I pressed the datalog button in time or not.

BIG difference with the SD calibration though. Much more power. Was like driving a different car almost! Lol!
Attachments
SD_Rev1_EFICUb.fpdl
includes almost a full WOT pull
(4.22 MiB) Downloaded 53 times
SD_Rev1_EFICU.fpdl
Engine start
(259.81 KiB) Downloaded 52 times
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

EFICU,

With the MAF tune I was able to get 36MPG with my crazy driving. Hit 80 a few times on the interstate as well and got to work early for once! Lol! With the way I drive and where I live, the cruise control consumes more fuel. I'm guessing because of all the hills. The cruise control will be maintaining the speed all the way to a peak not realizing that when at the top the car will coast much faster than the speed set. Also, will maintain the speed all the way down not knowing that it'll need to work extra hard to scale the next hill.

I may tweak the tune a little more then put it to rest for a rainy day or something once the SD calibration is good to go. I do like the SD power, so my thought is to try to get the drivability in check. If we cannot get it to satisfactory, then maybe go with your idea of using SD for WOT. I guess there is no middle ground between part-throttle and WOT tuning?

Thanks so much for your help EFICU! Once we are good to go here I'll take my friends who said that for a ride and not tell them about the tune! They might 5h!+ their pants! Haha!
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by EFICU »

CryptoCraig wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:54 pm Here are the datalogs... Was harder to shift (very jumpy), and after starting the engine the idle was jumpy at first. The smaller file might show the starting of the engine, not sure if I pressed the datalog button in time or not.

BIG difference with the SD calibration though. Much more power. Was like driving a different car almost! Lol!
We have to get the fuel trims closer and it will drive a lot better. That's why I was saying to get some data right away so we can make any big changes that are necessary. I think most of your issue was just too much fuel, so I pulled a lot out for this next one for idle and part throttle which should help all your issues.
CryptoCraig wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:20 pm EFICU,

With the MAF tune I was able to get 36MPG with my crazy driving. Hit 80 a few times on the interstate as well and got to work early for once! Lol! With the way I drive and where I live, the cruise control consumes more fuel. I'm guessing because of all the hills. The cruise control will be maintaining the speed all the way to a peak not realizing that when at the top the car will coast much faster than the speed set. Also, will maintain the speed all the way down not knowing that it'll need to work extra hard to scale the next hill.

I may tweak the tune a little more then put it to rest for a rainy day or something once the SD calibration is good to go. I do like the SD power, so my thought is to try to get the drivability in check. If we cannot get it to satisfactory, then maybe go with your idea of using SD for WOT. I guess there is no middle ground between part-throttle and WOT tuning?

Thanks so much for your help EFICU! Once we are good to go here I'll take my friends who said that for a ride and not tell them about the tune! They might 5h!+ their pants! Haha!
If you're getting 36mpg with almost 30% rich fuel trims, then you will get good gas mileage no matter what. Usually when the ECU is working that hard to hit the target both drivability and fuel mileage suffer. Yeah generally manual throttle operation doesn't yield the best mileage, but if you think it does for you then that's all that matters.

It's up to you on what you want to do with the MAF tune. I don't see it being the best bet, I would guess you will end up with a really jagged MAF curve and still not be able to get it smooth. It can't read very well in that tube, it's essentially only good for being an intake temp sensor at this point with the Skunk intake. But again, if that's something you want to do that's totally up to you. I'm not sure what you mean by no middle ground between part throttle and WOT. It's more difficult to scale the MAF for WOT because of how the voltages read, where SD you can dial it perfectly. But I don't trust your MAF sensor reading at all with the Skunk intake, so I wouldn't want to be making fuel adjustments using a compromised sensor. The hybrid calibration I mention just allows stock intake cars to run the MAF and then SD for WOT once the manifold pressure is reached. I would highly recommend taking the SD tune as far as you can go with it, there is a reason why every company that makes the big tube intakes tell you need to be tuned SD for this intake. The SD may only be faster too because the cam angle map is a little more appropriate for your mods and the fueling was better than your old tune. It's not necessarily the SD function that is making feel more powerful, it's a combination of things.

Yeah if you don't have any major upgrades planned, I would recommend we go in and tune each cam angle one by one to gather fuel and ignition data for them, then blend the cam angle out based on that. But that's totally up to you.

Here is the next one for you. Give this one a run when you can.
CryptoCraig.SD.Rev02 (Blended)(Vtec4600).fpcal
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

Thank you, I'll get the datalog today after lunch. I'll see if I can get a WOT pull as well.

Can't wait to see the final product!
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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Re: 2014 Civic Si w/Skunk2 CAI

Post by CryptoCraig »

EFICU wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:11 pm Yeah if you don't have any major upgrades planned, I would recommend we go in and tune each cam angle one by one to gather fuel and ignition data for them, then blend the cam angle out based on that. But that's totally up to you.
Let's do it!

Got a datalog for on the way to and from my parent's house today. There is a WOT pull in 3rd in each one. Datalog ending in "b" is more like how I normally drive, minus the WOT pull. This cal had lots of improvements over the 1st already.
Attachments
CryptoCraig.SD.Rev02b.fpdl
(4.16 MiB) Downloaded 47 times
CryptoCraig.SD.Rev02a.fpdl
(4.21 MiB) Downloaded 51 times
- 9th Gen. 2014 Civic Si, Skunk2 CAI, Hondata FlashPro SD tuned by EFICU
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