Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2007-2008 US TSX
gphung
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Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:41 am

Hi there,

I'm in the process of purchasing a FlashPro (order being processed at the moment), and I started playing with the latest FP Manager software (beta) and started by comparing the differences between the 09-10 stock equiv. map to the 11-14 stock equiv. map (5AT for both). I noticed some differences under the Fuel tab.

09-10 stock equiv
Image

11-14 stock equiv
Image

Two things:

1. I immediately noticed that the AFM Enabled checkbox does not exist for the 11-14 stock equiv map. Is there a reason for this?
2. I also noticed the Injector (ms) values in the AFM Fuel table are different between 09-10 and 11-14 for Air Mass (mg) >= 1000 mg. Can someone explain what this means? What are the implications of that? I guess what I really want to know is, does it make sense (and is it safe) to change all of these values in the 11-14 map to the 09-10 map, and flash it onto a 2013 TSX?

Thanks

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Spunkster
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by Spunkster » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:16 am

You can still tune via MAP, but you cannot remove the AFM or it will cause a number of problems. Leaving it plugged in will not cause any restriction or adverse effects.

The stock tables are the same up to 800. The higher values will need to be tuned for your specific application.

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:23 am

Spunkster wrote:You can still tune via MAP, but you cannot remove the AFM or it will cause a number of problems. Leaving it plugged in will not cause any restriction or adverse effects.

The stock tables are the same up to 800. The higher values will need to be tuned for your specific application.
Thanks spunkster! I was curious what the different values above 800 actually imply though. Could you elaborate? I also noticed the 09-10 speed density map has the same AFM Fuel values as the 11-14 stock map (all around, not just up to 800).

Like, at 1000 mg Air, what is the difference between 17.17 ms and 30.37 ms (Injector)? Thanks!!

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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by Spunkster » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:07 pm

The values above 800 mg are generally for forced induction. You will not get more than 800 mg of air unless you’re turbo/supercharged. And if you are then you more than likely you are going to want to retune that section anyways, if you’re running AFM and not MAP tables. If it the car is NA than I would not worry about the values above the 800 mg index. As far as what it is, it’s the time the injector is open and spraying fuel into the manifold. A time difference implies more or less fuel.

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:13 pm

Spunkster wrote:The values above 800 mg are generally for forced induction. You will not get more than 800 mg of air unless you’re turbo/supercharged. And if you are then you more than likely you are going to want to retune that section anyways, if you’re running AFM and not MAP tables. If it the car is NA than I would not worry about the values above the 800 mg index. As far as what it is, it’s the time the injector is open and spraying fuel into the manifold. A time difference implies more or less fuel.
Ah, I understand. Thanks for the help!

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:26 am

Hi again,

New question, this time about the Ignition High tables between 09-10 and 11-14 TSX stock equivalent maps.

I noticed that the values in the tables are identical (i.e., for 0 degrees: top left cell is 53.40 in both maps, bottom right cell is 23.50 in both maps, and everything in between is also the same). However, the RPM indices are not on the same scale.

The 09-10 map has the following indices (in RPM):
500, 750, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, 6000, 6500, 6800, 6900, 7000, 7200, 7500, and 8000.

Whereas the 11-14 map has the following indices (in RPM):
550, 650, 720, 780, 800, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000, 2250, 2500, 2750, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000, and 7500

09-10:
Image

11-14:
Image
(the difference is highlighted in yellow)

Is this a bug in the 11-14 maps? Or was this intended? Should I edit the Ignition High RPM indices in the 11-14 map to reflect the values in the 09-10 map?

Note, the RPM indices in the Ignition Low tables between the 09-10 and 11-14 maps are the same:
550, 650, 720, 780, 800, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000, 2250, 2500, 2750, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000, and 7500

Thanks,
Gary

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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by Spunkster » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:30 am

Yes it is a bug and will be fixed in the next release.

The actual RPM index is being used for Knock retard high. Do not edit the index as it will edit the wrong one.

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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:43 am

Spunkster wrote:Yes it is a bug and will be fixed in the next release.

The actual RPM index is being used for Knock retard high. Do not edit the index as it will edit the wrong one.
Does this mean that the 11-14 RPM indices are in actuality the same as the ones from the 09-10 map, but just incorrectly labeled? I think I'm misunderstanding what the bug actually is.

Is it okay if I delete all of the indices and add new ones back in and mirror the 09-10 map?

Sorry for the silly questions. I appreciate your help. The reason I ask is because I have an 09-10 map I want to use on my 2013 TSX, so I figured the best thing to do is to mirror the values from the 09-10 map onto a fresh 11-14 map.

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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by Spunkster » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:45 pm

It is a visual bug and it using the correct index. If you edit the index it will be changing some thing else entirely. DO NOT EDIT THE INDEX!

This will be corrected in the next beta release.

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:58 pm

Spunkster wrote:It is a visual bug and it using the correct index. If you edit the index it will be changing some thing else entirely. DO NOT EDIT THE INDEX!

This will be corrected in the next beta release.
Thank you!

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:06 am

Hi again,

I'm seeing a similar discrepancy, but this time in the Closed Loop > Lambda page.

Between the 09-10 and the 11-14 stock equivalent maps, the Lambda (:1) values are the same across the board for all tables. However, the ECT (degrees F) values for the Closed loop target lambda low load and Closed loop target lambda high load tables differ between the 09-10 map and the 11-14 map, with the values in 11-14 ranging from -22 F to 176 F.

09-10
Image

11-14
Image
(differences highlighted in yellow)

Is this another cosmetic bug? Or is there something functionally wrong with this configuration?

Thanks again,
Gary

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:17 am

In addition to the issue I posted immediately above this post, I see two more issues... :)

The Throttle page's Overrun injector restart tables:
The RPM values for the cut and recover tables appear to be switched around in the 11-14 map. See below for details.

09-10:
Image

11-14:
Image
  • Is this expected?
Secondly, the Throttle > TPlate Normal table:
The values, including the TPS indices, don't appear to make sense on the 11-14 map. It doesn't make sense to me how at a particular RPM (say 2500 RPM), there can be many different values for Throttle (%) when the TPS is at 100%.

09-10:
Image

11-14:
Image
  • Is this also a cosmetic bug, or are there more issues in this case?
  • Are the values still somehow equivalent between the 09-10 maps and the 11-14 maps, despite what the table is showing?
  • I'm not planning on modifying this table, but I'm just wondering if it's still safe to flash my ECU with the provided 11-14 stock equivalent map.
  • Would it make sense to re-add the TPS indices from scratch here, and have the values reflect the 09-10 map?

gphung
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by gphung » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:36 pm

Bump for the last 2 posts. Seeing as how FP manager officially supports 11-14 TSX now, I'm hoping to get some support/answers for the last 3 bugs I've brought up in this thread.

I'm also not even sure if it's safe to flash the official 11-14 stock equivalent map onto my 2013 TSX because of these outstanding issues.

GameOver69
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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by GameOver69 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:28 am

I too would like to know if its safe. My flashpro will be delivered today, and would like to flash the stock basaemap, but only if it is considered safe.

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Re: Difference between 09-10 stock map and 11-14 stock map

Post by Hondata » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:33 am

The injector overrun has been switched over.

The throttle tables are different because a MT calibration has been converted to AT. We've changed FlashProManager so it preserves the table indexes when the calibrations are converted.

The closed loop target lambda tables are correct.
Hondata

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