Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

eliseeuropa
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Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:29 pm

I have a question about the wiring for the TC when used with an ABS Bosch M4.

First, recap about the ABS Bosch M4: it is the ABS made for racing purpose from Bosch, programmable for the car, with a yaw sensor, and pressure sensor. The ABS is using active sensor.

Now, my question is how to connect the TC wheel speed input with the ABS. The ABS is supplied with hardness, and Bosch are quite sensitive about that, and it is specify to not cut it or splice it. A module is available to splice the sensor giving specific output for each wheels to the ECU as we are able to found on many cars with ECU with traction control.

I have two options, t first option is purchasing the module, which it make sense, and connect the output to the TC module. For this option, I just need the confirmation how to use the ABS output to connect the TC. This option is more expensive but fully safe for the ABS. The ABS have 5 wire output, 1 per wheel and the ground. The second option is splicing the wheel sensor and not meeting the Bosch recommendation. Again, the ABS is a racing ABS where the working zone is by far deeper than OEM ABS..

I did not see how to use the ABS output to drive the TC input.

Your support will be appreciate.

Marc

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Spunkster
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Spunkster » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:55 pm

http://www.hondata.com/help/tractioncon ... wiring.htm

It would have to be wired according to the instructions in the help file. It is up to you if you need some other device as to not cut the wires.

eliseeuropa
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 am

On the help menu it is indicated to splice the wire between the ABS and the speed sensor.

My question is to confirm how to connect the the TC to the ABS output, I suppose it is just straight forward, please confirm. Please see attachment, with the outpiut interface. The link to the original document, page 49.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/ ... Manual.pdf
Attachments
JR-005-_2017_TC connection.pdf
(202.26 KiB) Downloaded 45 times

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Spunkster » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:23 am

You will need to contact Bosch to find out which wire is which for each sensor then follow the instructions in our help file for active sensors.

eliseeuropa
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 pm

It sound like I will need to do some trials... Bosch are answering not cut the hardness, and use the output from the optional speed sensor box. Typically, those outputs are going directly to the ECU like used on Motec as well as on the original ECU of the Lotus Elise/Exige. And they said you need to ask to the TC manufacturer if the TC can accept the output as is where the signal is voltage step. I feel that the output are acting like active sensor. For the wiring code and color, of course I can read the schematic as well as the TC help menu. Anyway, it is clear that you will not comment more than that. Sniff!

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Hondata » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:56 pm

Well, what is the specification for the output from their speed box? Can't say anything without knowing that.
Hondata

eliseeuropa
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:25 am

Based on what I can see on the manual, the output look like a straight +12 V, one wire per wheel with a one ground for all. I suppose it needs to be connected as active sensor with no ABS controller, with a 270 ohms. The switch turned "on" on the TC box.

This is my bet.

Thanks

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Hondata » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:54 am

Do they give a waveform, amplitude and offset?

Chances are it will work ok. The TC input can be current sensitive (active sensors) or voltage sensitive (inductive sensors), and the TC input circuitry is self adjusting to different voltage levels.
Hondata

eliseeuropa
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:16 pm

Ok cool.

The waveform is a square pulse, and I suppose is 50/50. The voltage is just shown Ux V, but based on my experience on Bosch industrial stuff, it is probably the actual voltage at battery when the engine is running.

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:43 am

Change on my order from Bosch, I will receive the ABS M5 updated version which have output directly from the controller. Now, it is not clear at all for me.

I will copy the text from the manual.

Option 2: Wheel Speed TTL

ABS M5 delivers wheel speed Hall signals for FL, FR, RL and RR wheels as output.
Connector is available on wiring harness under Wheel Speed TTL for FL, FR, RL
and RR, see also Wiring Harness [} 48]. The following graphic shows the spec
as it is in the ECU. An example of the front left wheel is shown.
M5_TTL_connection.pdf
(208.56 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
The reference ground is the GND_ECU
DC output current, Iout, 50 mA
H voltage level, Uout_high, no voltage indicated, but shown as ECU side with open collector
L Voltage, Uout_lowL 1.5 max from the controller, I <50 mA ECU side<

I don.'t know how to connect those signals, your help will be appreciated.

Marc

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Hondata » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:53 am

Open collector means that you will need a pull up resistor to +12V for each output. 470 ohms should keep the current below 50mA.
Hondata

eliseeuropa
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:54 am

Please see my TC wiring diagram, and please confirm that it is switched the right way, and well done.

Thanks
JR-005-45-1000_TC revA.pdf
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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Hondata » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:15 am

Looks good.
Hondata

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by eliseeuropa » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:36 pm

I am taking few minutes to give a feed back. Everything works fine, the TC look like working pretty well on street. I did not tried it at the race track yet, but I will soon.

The only minor point is in order to communicate with the ABS, I need to remove the power from the TC and input. Not a major issue at all.

I am happy with the solution. And the ABS is working fine too.

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Re: Hondata TC and ABS Bosch M4

Post by Hondata » Wed May 02, 2018 8:38 am

Thanks for the feedback.
Hondata

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