FlexFuel (E85) system support?

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2009 (US, UK, Asia) S2000
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Hondata
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Hondata » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:26 pm

This actually has been tried by Honda, and it works horribly. It might work when changing from E10 to E15, but otherwise it can't cope with anything other than perfect tuning and doesn't work in cold weather when filling with a different mixture.
We try not to add features that are not good solutions. The ethanol sensors are cheap (under $50) and work very well.
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jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:21 pm

Hondata wrote:This actually has been tried by Honda, and it works horribly. It might work when changing from E10 to E15, but otherwise it can't cope with anything other than perfect tuning.
Makes sense.
Hondata wrote:We try not to add features that are not good solutions.
I expect nothing but honesty and quality. It amuses me how JB4 (BMW n54/n55 vehicles) can make claims to support on the fly fuel adjustments with their map5. Autotune is a fallacy.

Regarding the range and slow response of sensors & fuel specific to ethanol/cold weather, this is no surprise to tuners and users. I can't speak for the rest of the community, but the two compensation tables in Smanager/Kpro is all I would want. The capability to adjust for maximum of 15% various in fuel quality, realistically 5-10%, would be phenominal. In fact, just the ability to log the sensor and overlay potential fuel and ignition changes would be great (assumed post D/A conversion [zeitronix etc] via 0-5v input on EGRL or ELD). I'd be glad to help out with a beta release if you're willing to write the code.

In regards to "one tune to rule them all"....There is no such thing as an autotune in my opinion. I spend my weekend days and nights perfecting two maps for two fuels. I do the same for users of this forum, and others, free of charge. I don't get paid for it, I enjoy it. Having two 2x4 tables for fuel compensation and ignition compensation based on a single 0-5v sensor input will be a monumental advance.

Comments welcome,

JR

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:35 pm

Just took out my PZX s2000 ecu and confirmed it is EGRL capable and unused. Let me know, be glad to help out the community.

JR

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Beechx1 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:10 am

Jun1or says that fuel and ignition control for different fuels based on a 0-5V input would be fantastic. For those of us with 91 octane pump gas, we would also need a boost limit based on ethanol content.

As I understand an earlier Hondata post in this thread, adding Flex fuel capability would require a hardware change to be able to read PWM signals. How about an external module that converts PWM to 0-5V?

Any interest / plans for Honadata to add Flex fuel capability to Flashpro for 06+ S2000?

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:02 pm

Beechx1 wrote:Jun1or says that fuel and ignition control for different fuels based on a 0-5V input would be fantastic. For those of us with 91 octane pump gas, we would also need a boost limit based on ethanol content.

As I understand an earlier Hondata post in this thread, adding Flex fuel capability would require a hardware change to be able to read PWM signals. How about an external module that converts PWM to 0-5V?

Any interest / plans for Honadata to add Flex fuel capability to Flashpro for 06+ S2000?
Boost control compensation would be nice too.

The pwm to analog 0-5v conversion hardware already exists, most common being Zeitronix ECA, so this would be a software only update, to the best of my knowledge anyway.

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Mon May 18, 2015 8:06 pm

Hondata wrote:We try not to add features that are not good solutions.
Bump to show continued support and interest. I just bought Hondata Traction Control, and yet, I'm still very interested in flexfuel support for Flashpro, and/or future versions supporting inputs and outputs like the natural progression of other Hondata products.

As previously mentioned, I'd be glad to beta test.

Mike

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:51 pm

Currently at West Michigan Honda Meet '15 (Gingerman Raceway) and was conversing with several other time attack and hpde participants interested in flex fuel support.

Many of us are using varying grades of ethanol that could benefit from flex fuel support via FlashPro.

Thanks!

Mike

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:32 pm

Bump it up!

09CivicSiBrian
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by 09CivicSiBrian » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:36 pm

Maybe in the wrong spot, but I'd love E-85 flex-fuel capability in my 09Si flashpro'd. I've got the injectors to support it, just need a way to accept an input.

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:19 pm

09CivicSiBrian wrote:Maybe in the wrong spot, but I'd love E-85 flex-fuel capability in my 09Si flashpro'd. I've got the injectors to support it, just need a way to accept an input.
You and many others my friend. We patiently wait ;)

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:36 pm

Bump.

Still interested. Another season change has gone by and adjusting the maps manually from e70-e85 is getting old.

Again - to reiterate, this would be a 0-5v input, not PWM, thus no hardware changes needed.

Bump.

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:29 pm

Bump. Also very interested in this. Please have it available soon! I really dont want to switch management systems like many of my friends just for e85 capability.

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:29 am

I also wanted to update this. So I've been tuned on full-E85-only now for 6months with no issues. This is not ideal since E85 content can vary, but here in Socal with fairly consistent weather all year the E content from my local gas stations have been very consistent when tested: E80-90 every time. Again, a true flex fuel tune is ideal for safety reasons, however this is not possible with the flashpro and software for the s2000 today. Only way to achieve this now is to use a different engine management system such as AEM EMS2, Infinity, etc.

As mentioned before, a flex fuel tune is currently unavailable for our platform however a full-E85 tune can be achieved with a very competent tuner and regular testing of E85 at your local gas station. Idle, partial throttle, WOT, AFRs, everything is running as expected. Also, not sure how much of a benefit this is, but I've been using Lucas E85 fuel stabilizer since I am unable to fill up 91pump every once in a while to lubricate all the internals.

So, for everyone waiting for flex capability, although this is still unavailable it is possible to run the car on full-E85 with a proper tune and maintenance (at your own risk).

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Hondata » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:10 pm

Flex fuel for the S2000 is currently in testing.
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andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:32 pm

Hondata wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:10 pm
Flex fuel for the S2000 is currently in testing.
Great news! Are you able to say if this will be a software or hardware upgrade?

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