Cam angle question

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the FN2 European Civic Type R
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mladjan
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:16 am

Cam angle question

Post by mladjan » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:57 am

Hi guys,

I have a stock FN2 with groupe N map, with modified fuel table. I was targeting AFR 13:1 on WOT which gave me nice improvement, measured on dyno today.
mladjatocakuporedo.bmp
mladjatocakuporedo.bmp (2.44 MiB) Viewed 6312 times
Im interested to find out what is the reason of torque drop after 4500rpm, and by looking into map (attached) I can only see logical explanation in cam angle, where I have 46 angle in high torque position, and after changing angle to lower number it starts falling down torque.
Screenshot as example: https://cl.ly/0X143X0p2Z2c

My question is, how to correct this torque loss? Is 'ok' to keep 46 angle through rpms to keep the torque?
GroupeN Stock - fuel remap.fpcal
(18.53 KiB) Downloaded 124 times

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R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: Cam angle question

Post by R-12914 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:10 am

Please post a datalog with 3rd gear pull from ~2000 to Limiter based on your calibration!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

mladjan
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Cam angle question

Post by mladjan » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:21 am

I need to create this log. I have a log for this dyno graph in 5th?

User avatar
R-12914
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: Germany/Bavaria

Re: Cam angle question

Post by R-12914 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:21 am

mladjan wrote:I need to create this log. I have a log for this dyno graph in 5th?
Yes, you can post this also!
2008 Honda Civic TypeR FN2
Rotrex C30-94 supercharged with relocated IAT
Powered by ASNU 092/FP330E fuel pump & ASNU 090/750cc fuel injectors
------------------------
ECU: 37820-RSP-E03
Flashpro: FP-SI-INT-21153
Software: 3.4.7.0
Firmware: 169

mladjan
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Cam angle question

Post by mladjan » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:33 am

Here it is :)
dyno run (remap).fpdl
(1019.04 KiB) Downloaded 138 times

typer86
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Cam angle question

Post by typer86 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:06 am

In all cases: To find out the best torque you need pulls to the rev limiter with each locked VTC cam angle.

Adjust the cam angle index profile:
!!! (Calibration > VTC > Cam angel index high: 0 15 30 40 50)

You are using a 40°+ degree profile which the ignition and fuel tables are not tuned.
In your case:
VTC profile: 42-46 degree of VTC
Your ignition and fuel tables start at 40 degrees... So 40+ degrees are not tuned.


Hondata recommended tuning guideline:
#1 fix the cam angle profile on the high cam table (select all press "STRG + J" and enter "50" in the section: "Set selected values to..."
#2 tune the fueling each cam angle
#3 determine the best VTC power / torque on the dyno...
pull 1: lock 50 degree on the high cam and do a WOT
pull 2: lock 40 degree
pull 3: lock 30 degree ... etc.

... at the end you can determine your best power torque VTC profile for your engine.

mladjan
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Cam angle question

Post by mladjan » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:56 am

Thx for response! I was looking at hondata videos and I know the process of tuning on dyno, but because renting dyno on few hours is expensive, will do this when I mount a supercharger in next few months. Just wanted to play a little bit with my N/A setup to understand what and why is happening :)

civicRSA
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:29 am
Location: South Africa
Contact:

Re: Cam angle question

Post by civicRSA » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:17 am

The dip in torque you have is common on a stock car. You will need a header to open up the midrange

krisdee
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Cam angle question

Post by krisdee » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:25 am

mladjan wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:57 am
Hi guys,

I have a stock FN2 with groupe N map, with modified fuel table. I was targeting AFR 13:1 on WOT which gave me nice improvement, measured on dyno today.

mladjatocakuporedo.bmp

Im interested to find out what is the reason of torque drop after 4500rpm, and by looking into map (attached) I can only see logical explanation in cam angle, where I have 46 angle in high torque position, and after changing angle to lower number it starts falling down torque.
Screenshot as example: https://cl.ly/0X143X0p2Z2c

My question is, how to correct this torque loss? Is 'ok' to keep 46 angle through rpms to keep the torque?

GroupeN Stock - fuel remap.fpcal
Can I use this map on stock FN2 or it's risky?

krisdee
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Cam angle question

Post by krisdee » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:37 pm

Ok I used this map on stock FN2.
Could somebody please check my datalogs
Attachments
Group N fuel.fpdl
(630.31 KiB) Downloaded 45 times
Group N.fpdl
(283.69 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

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