2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

2012+ US/Canadian Civic Si / 2013+ ILX
Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Interesting, hahaha I have not looked at the prices, an exhaust you recommend besides FR I heard Ktuned sounds really similar, It's my daily driver so I don't want something obnoxiously loud, I'll make sure to check the RDX Injectors, they seem to be on sale on heeltoe right now for 300 lol is that a good deal?,

Any other accessorial mod I could do to support the others? I'm looking to do coilovers as well, a little bit concerned with the loudness on the FR system, I heard the exhaust was a deeper tone to the stock which is what I'm looking hahaha! so much to learn, I've spent hours reading the forum, also any thoughts on catted vs ... dp?

Thanks man,
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

Yeah I think the Full Race DP is $700+ USD. Some of the others are $380-550 or so. I didn't look at the catbacks though, so I don't know the price comparison on that. Full Race will definitely be a top tier product in materials and build quality, so it's worth it from an investment stand point knowing it will last you the life of the vehicle. I watched a few videos on Youtube, and it sounds pretty good. Just a couple I watched are linked below, the second video is POV review and the guy basically tells you how he feels about everything. He said the FR catted DP and exhaust droned a lot less on the highway than his Invidia exhaust. So if you do a lot of highway driving, or even some, you don't want drone for long periods of time. It will drive you and your passengers crazy depending on how bad it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSQdJv-Gphg&t=368s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPcalY8jjE

That's not a bad price on the injectors. PRL sells a package with the injector harnesses so you don't have to cut and splice your factory wiring. Something like this would be ideal, that way you can always return to stock with little issue.

https://prlmotorsports.com/collections/ ... 6929250497

An RBC manifold would be up to you, it's been proven to lose midrange power but make up a little in the top end. I don't think it's worth it, unless a peak power dyno sheet is what you want. For everyday driving, and the beauty of the K24, that midrange power is nice to have using the stock intake manifold. If you do want to do the RBC, the tune is completely different for an RBC from the stock 9th gen manifold. So take that into consideration for tuning now and in the future. You won't be able to throw the RBC on and run a tune that wasn't built for it.

On 8th gens, I have had really good luck with the K-Tuned 72mm throttle body. I've also had a few guys with 8th gens running the J37 with no issues too. I would only recommend the bigger TB if you plan to port match the inlet of the intake manifold on the TB flange. If you put a bigger TB on and leave the factory port size, it negates any benefit from the bigger TB. Most guys notice better throttle response and overall power with the bigger TB, so that would be something to look into.

It all really depends on how far you want to go with it. If you're just looking for a killer daily driver, then you could add the DP and exhaust and retune it for a nice simple setup. If you want to go a little further with it, then a big TB with a port matched opening on the intake manifold would give you a little more power and some bragging rights. FBO 8th and 9th gens are a lot of fun to drive. Even if you decided to only do the DP and exhaust, with the retune for those you would probably be more than happy.
Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Wow thank you,

I went through the Videos and it's looking like the way to go, but I heard bad reviews of the FR DP fitting about it cracking which concerned me a lot, but think this is solved by adding the rear motor mount from Hasport, I'm in Canada btw, so I found the ... FR DP for a really good price but unsure about ... DP, this car is going to be that a daily driver, but I liked your approach, I want it to be a killer daily driver!, I will for sure go with the RDX injectors with the harnesses, thanks for the advice, this mod will be done together RDX + DP + Exhaust,

No need for the RBC manifold at this time, I need that Mid power for the streets, I'll be doing DP, exhaust, I'm already stoked with the changes haha! it feels like a different car and it's still stock!

BTW the sound coming from the Takeda SRI is crazy, I should probably do a Video of my next WOT pull for you to hear...

I'll keep reviewing and keep you updated once snow is gone I'll do that final rev,

This video kind of sold me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOS5qhub1ok after 45 sec mark
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

Yeah it's hard to find that balance on being too loud and too quiet. It's all so personal for guys and how sensitive they are to drone and what not. If you had a family and drove this car all the time, a quieter less droning system would be ideal. A younger guy with no family, then you could go a little wilder if you wanted. So it's all personal preference. The performance loss from a high flow cat to a ... will be small. Now performance over the OEM cat pipe, anything is better for performance of course.

Sounds like a good plan in the future to do it all. It's a good idea to do it all at once if funds allow so you can get all the tuning done in one shot. Just be sure to keep me in the loop so I can send you the first file for RDX injectors, otherwise you will have poor fueling and perhaps starting from using OEM 9th gen data. So just let me know the weekend of the install or whatever, and we will get you setup and game plan the process for tuning with the new mods.

The intake probably sounds crazy being right on the other side of the firewall from you, haha. It will get better with the new mods once the engine is more efficient with the new mods.

The exhaust in that video sounds good. It's so hard to find good exhaust videos because you never know the quality of the audio equipment used to take it between so many smartphones. But it at least gives you some idea. But yeah, the FR exhaust sounds pretty good in all the videos I found.
Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Good morning Sir!,

There were roads dry for about an hour this morning and couldn't resist to do the WOT pulls, I have several failed ones, but the main one should be closer to the end of the log,

Here is a small clip of the first failed pull hehe:

https://streamable.com/yke29b

What are your thoughts on the burble and crackle tune from an expert point of view, is there consequences long term?

Let me know if you have any questions,
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EFICU
Posts: 3295
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Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

That intake sounds killer in the video! Once you get a DP and exhaust it will get even better.

The crackle tunes cause a lot of chaos in the cylinders, similar to a 2-step. Well not as bad as a 2-step, but you know what I mean. It's hard to say how bad it is when you see guys and their twin turbo Huracans setup with the crackle tune, but it's definitely not good. The one good thing about how Honda sets up their ecus, a calibration for your car with the crackle tune, you actually have to modulate the throttle slightly to get it to crackle. So if you let off the throttle completely, the injectors shut off and the crackle won't happen. If you are decelerating and put just a slight bit of throttle in, that keeps the injectors on and it will crackle. So in essence, you can have a crackle tune and hot have it crackle every time you decel. You certainly want to have a ... exhaust to run it safely though, anything with a cat will usually damage the cat material using the crackle feature and perhaps cause pressure in the cylinder. So keep that in mind. Long term though I would say the overwhelming consensus is it's bad, an occasional crackle for fun isn't the end of the world.

That last datalog looked good. It was a little rich with the cooler temps, so I made some intake temp compensations to see if that helps bring it back in line. We had one knock, but it happened on take off letting the clutch out. I made a few changes to try to stop that, but there is only so much control we have over ignition in that range, so I did what I could. It's not an every time deal anyways, just want to address as much as we can while we working together.

Take this one for a drive when you can.
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Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Good morning,

Here you go Rev09, let me know if you have any questions,

Thank you!
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Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Hey EFICU,

I know it's not related but do you recommend any coilovers for daily driving? Just wondering if you have any input,

Thanks
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

Hi Techi,

That last datalog was pretty good. The background changes I made worked well. I made a couple small fuel adjustments, and a couple ignition adjustments for the one knock we had.

You can go two ways with the coilovers, for me, I run Koni Yellows with Ground Control on all my stuff for the past fifteen years or so. I like the idea that I can replace a strut or a shock at any time by ordering from anywhere that carries Koni shocks and get it within a day or two. With full body coilovers like BC or something, you have to send them out to get rebuilt which means you're downtime with the car is much greater if one gets damaged or you just want to freshen them up after a few years. So it all depends on what you want to do. I've had Koni Yellows on my EM1's, my 8th gen, and my TSX and enjoyed the ride with every one of them. I run them full soft on the street to get a nice ride. So it's up to you, if you want the sexier option of a full body coilover, I would contact Chris @ Redshift Motorsports https://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/R ... -s/147.htm, he works with BC Racing directly to provide his own package. He's spec'd the spring rates for my 8th gen and my TSX and it rides great, plus he is a great guy. He might be able to put together a Koni Yellow/GC package too if you want to go with a modular setup like I mention, but either way I would contact him and see what he would recommend and why. You should also look into the Progress 22mm rear sway bar. I've done that on my 8th gen and TSX with really nice results.

Here is the next revision. I think we're just about there, but we will see how it looks. I'm just tweaking things to get it really good.
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Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Thanks Man,

Sadly I'm sick with that thing that is going around the world, so I might take some time before I do the datalog, started on Thursday, yesterday was the hardest day...

So yellow koni is the shock and the ground control is the coilover conversion kit?, interesting, never seen that, let me know if I'm wrong, first time I look at Koni's, I was actually looking at BC so I might give Chris a shout and shop for options, I found a good deal for a FR catted DP for around 700 CAD (530 USD), I like what you mentioned about replacing the parts specially for a DD,

Thanks man, any input is greatly appreciated,
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

No problem, take your time and get healthy.

Yeah the Koni yellow is basically an off the shelf strut or shock (depending on the application). Koni machines a ring on the shock body that allows a steel ring to slide into that channel which allows the Ground Control coilover sleeve to ride on. Chris actually had his own sleeves like Ground Control at one point, but I don't know now. Both his and Ground Control come with Eibach springs too, so it's all really well engineered and not an eBay type package. Once they're assembled, they look just like an actual coilover, but some guys like the sexiness if you will of a complete coilover from something like BC. I like function over form, so the Koni yellow with Ground Control for me is ideal because I can get a replacement shock for my car tomorrow from Tire Rack if I needed one. That's not so easy from a full body coilover manufacturer, not to mention the cost. Koni yellows are known for their ride and they are designed for lowered cars, it's not a basic shock that isn't ready for a lowered ride height. Below is a picture of the package from Redshift Motorsports I bought years ago. It's their stock image, but mine was exactly this on my 8th gen. The only downside to the Koni on 8ths and 9ths, you have to use your front strut body, remove the stock shock cartridge, and insert the Koni cartridge. Once it's done, you can remove it with one bolt, which you can see if you look at the bottom of the front strut. The picture below there is a Koni yellow inside the stock strut housing, you just can't see it. So the initial labor is a little more, but easily done and there are tutorials all over the place. Chris at Redshift used to have cores to do this before sending them to you, but I don't know now that he works with BC so closely. But this is was it looks like below for an 8th, but similar for a 9th.
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Redshift Coilovers.jpg
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Sounds like a good deal on the DP. But yeah, talk with Chris or send him an email when you get ready and see what he thinks. Ask him what the course of action is on getting a replacement strut on the BC setup if you needed one in the future to see how that sounds. I don't mean to make it sound like blown struts are common and you will have one, just saying that as your main source of transportation, knowing your timeframe in the event of an issue would help you make your decision.
Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Thanks man,

I'm leaning towards this option, I will definitely hit Chris up, is the installation for suspension on the 8th and 9th the same?,

I can't seem to find videos for the 9th with this setup, I will go through forums later and see results, I don't really care about the look, agree with functionality, I'm a simple man, but never heard of this set up until you brough it up but sounds like the way to go hehe,

How's the ride compare vs stock? I've never done suspension on any of my cars so I'm excited for this one,
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

Yes the install is very much the same. They are technically a different chassis, but the overall concept is the same. Just be sure to look up torque specs and all that for everything, unless you like to tighten things to your own spec.

Here are a couple of really good videos showing the overall concept of the install, but more importantly the way the front strut has to be modified with the Koni cartridge. Watch the first one all the way through for sure, and see what you think on cutting the stock strut and installing the Koni cartridge. Chris @ Redshift did all this for me, but I don't know if he still does. It's not something that is hard to do, you just have to be aware of what's involved to you can do it right the first time. Once the front strut body is modified, you can replace it with a new Koni cartridge should you ever have a problem. The rear is the same think no matter which coilover you get, it will be a spring and shock combo as that's how Honda designed the rear suspension. Which is another reason I like the Koni/Ground Control system, you're not waiting on people's proprietary replacement parts should you need them. Check out video one, and let me know if scares you away or not.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2kxiptcgdU

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqQBvaYClWM

To me the ride is better than stock, only because I like a more controlled ride I would describe it I guess. I run the Koni's on full soft, but every click towards stiff you make it will tighten up more so the adjustment capabilities are great. Full stiff will be just that, but anywhere in between by just turning the adjustment screw on top will allow you to dial in what you like. Chris spec'd my spring rates on my 8th gen at 450/550, and it road great. Couple that with the Progress rear bar, and it was perfect to me. Nice and smooth, no bottoming out over huge bumps, flat in corners, everything you want in a daily. I took it on several long road trips and never had an issue with the ride or anything, even with older family members. Chris will take the weight of the 9th gen platform and your feedback on how you want it to ride, and give you a good spec for a spring rate. As mentioned, he spec'd my 8th gen and my TSX, both of which ride great using the Koni/GC components and a Progress rear bar.
Techi
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by Techi »

Wow it's an interesting concept, if I could get it done either by Chris or a local shop that would be ideal, I don't was to mess something up, as I recently immigrated to Canada(english is not my main language so apologize if I don't understand something or don't make sense) I have no tools, so I would need to factor that investment too, which is not a bad idea, I will confirm with Chris, so the back would be running on springs? or the ground control would be for all four corners of the vehicle, I couldn't find the Koni yellows for the FB6 anywhere, do I need to buy a equivalent for a different car? I'm assuming that's why the customization is needed, only concern from buying it in the US would be the tariff I would be paying so I will look for alternative options locally, but this set up is interesting me, specially the fact of changing each part of the system, do you have any picture of your TSX and your 8th? interested to see hehe, what is the progress rear bar for?

If at any point I'm asking too much let me know lol, I love learning from knowledgeable people,

Thanks
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2014 FB6 Stock - Basemap from Hondata good enough?

Post by EFICU »

I would imagine a local shop could do it, granted they have experience with them and understand the concept. Preferably an import performance shop of some sort would be ideal... Welcome to North America then, I would have never guessed english wasn't your first language honestly. Yeah once you talk with Chris then he can lay out your options that he can offer a little more clearly. Being that he works with BC so closely now, I don't know for sure he offers the Koni package stuff anymore. So I don't want to get you all set on it, then not be able to get it. It could be just as well to get the BC package from him so it saves you the hassle of getting the Koni's installed.

The front Koni yellows won't be specific to the 9th gen chassis, they are a generic cartridge that is installed in your factory strut housing. We would have to look at part numbers to find out which one works for 9th gens, but that would be too bad. This is what the cartridge looks below. So once your stock strut is cut out, then this yellow Koni slides in and bolts into your stock housing at the bottom just like the guy in the videos I posted. You can sort of see the threaded bung at the bottom of the cartridge, that's how it gets secured in your housing.
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Koni Cartridge.png
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Yes you would have Koni and Ground Control at all four corners. The 8th and 9th gens have interesting suspension in that the front is a strut, meaning the spring is attached and installed in the strut, and the rear is a shock with a separate spring. Where cars like my TSX or older Honda's have a strut or coilover at all four corners. You can see what I mean in this post of a 9th gen, notice how the front is a coilover where the shock assembly is going through the middle of the spring, and the rear is a separate shock and spring.

(Scroll to post #9, the red Civic with all the pictures of his suspension)
https://9thcivic.com/forum/threads/2012 ... post-59301

The progress bar is the rear sway bar replacement. It's a larger diameter bar which helps keep the body flat in the corner. It's not a must have by any means, but it would be a nice upgrade to your car and the overall driving feel. It also allows you to run the shocks on a softer setting while keeping the body flat in the corners, as opposed to running the shock stiffer to keep it flatter in the corners. The sway bar is pictured below.
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Progress Sway Bar.jpg
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